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VYC Yardsticks


Guest AlexB

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Guest AlexB

I was wondering if someone could enlighten me a little on how the yardsticks are calculated.

I have a fair idea, but it seems to me the system is flawed.

looking at the yardsticks of some popular classes and then comparing these with club results, it appears some of the ratings are all but unattainable for the average sailor.

I suspect this is because of class jumping.

eg several world champions compete in several classes. Does this push the rating down?

Take a cobra or a mosquito, you can reasonably aspire to achieving the yardstick, where as the Taipans, A class, F18 etc, it looks like the average guy will struggle to achieve the handicap.

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The yardsticks are calculated by the handicapper of the VYC, and are calculated on the basis of back calculating the “rating” for every class as if they had all finished equal (on yardstick) I.E If one boat finishes in an elapsed time of 100 minutes for another boat that is obviously slower, for them to finish equal then that slower boat may have a yardstick of 110 which would mean that if the slower boat finished in less than 110 minutes the sailor on the slower boat would have sailed better than the sailor on the faster boat (according to the yardstick) and would win.

The results for the calculation of the yardsticks are taken from as many results from as many races, locations, regattas clubs etc. as are presented to the VYC handicapper. Often from results presented, where there are large numbers of individual classes racing together, the handicapper will disregard the best (or first) sailor in each class and use the averaged result of the next two or three sailors in each class to include in the yardstick calculations. This is to do exactly what you are afraid of – that the yardstick will be obtained by some “exceptional” “blow-in international” or some unrepresentative extraordinary result.

By having the largest number of “on going” results to use in the on going calculation and verification of yardsticks, the appropriate yardstick will be very accurate.

The biggest problem is that if class associations become “lax” in forwarding regular results to the VYC handicapper, then that classes yardstick will remain stagnant, while other classes, which keep posting regular results to the VYC, will have their yardsticks regulated appropriately up or down depending on the current abilities of the sailors competing in those classes, so that they are not sailing to some yardstick that is currently totally disproportionate to their sailing abilities.

Another problem that has occasionally occurred is that some classes have thought that if they had a really low yardstick, people would think that their boat was exceptionally “fast”, so they have gone out of their way to provide only exceptional results that show the boat to be much faster than it, in reality is, then they have purposely not forwarded any further results. This results in them having a really low yardstick but it makes it very unlikely that they will every win a race “on yardstick” due to this ridiculously low handicap.

The VYC has the means of overcoming this also. In the white book it says some thing like, if the yardstick results have not been verified by a certain number of current results, then the handicapper/race committee conducting a regatta or race has the right to accordingly adjust that classes yardstick by a prescribed amount for that event.

So the way to keep yardsticks beyond argument is to make sure that each association forwards as many results to the VYC as possible.

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The more competitive and the larger numbers of competitive boats that regularly compete in a class, the lower the yardstick will naturally be due to this intense competition which naturally drives each of the "competitive" sailors to perform at their very best all the times. Because of this the yardstick for a really large, competitive, or just a very competitive class, will seem "unobtainable" to the "average sailor". That is not to say that the yardstick is wrong, it mostly means that the "average" sailor has still got a ways to go in improving his sailing standards to be able to sail up to that yardstick, not that the yardstick should be reduced to make it "easier" to win handicap races

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Yardsticks have been a sore spot for many sailors, in particular catsailor's as the majority of us are sailing in mixed fleets at club level.

The short commings of the vyc are plentyful, one example is the B14 skiff's in that their sail area has nearly doubled, the boats are lighter and the yardstick hasnt moved for many years.

But what else are we going to use? Personal handicaps are great for getting an accurate rating but are subject to abuse (sand bagging unimportant races) and there is the Texal system which does seem like a really good system for taking into account the weight of the boats, and the crew's. but i dont think i could handle the embarasement of being shoved on a set of scales each weekend!

At the end of the day, the VYC is nice and easy to use and its not like we are racing for sheep stations!

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At any regatta, etc, if there are classes of boats that are not "as standard" for the yardstick that they are sailing at, the race handicapper should be notified and he can make the prescribed adjustments to that yardstick, (as set out on the website for the VYC) that will compensate for the "changes" to the "non standard" boats sailing in that regatta.

Rather than sail against boats with obviously incorrect yardsticks, and just "copping it sweet" it is a simple matter for the handicapper to make the corrections and keep everyone happy, BUT some one has to inform the handicapper or else, in most cases, he/she will not be aware of the "non standard" status of the boats and will not make the changes. You can't expect any handicapper to be personally familiar with all the configurations of all the different classes sailing and can only act on the information that is available to them.

To see the appropriate "compensations" for variations to "standard" boats, go to

http://www.vyc.com.au/?Page=12596

and it is very explicitly set out for everyone to see and apply.

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The B14's are a classic example of evolution going on and the VYC not picking up on it. the upgraded b14's still fit within their class rules, its just thier class rules have changed.

I pity the guy who has to handicap the new moths! 104 vyc and the new ones almost keeping up with an A-class in most conditions now.

the A-class is a boat that if you dont have the latest boat your going to suffer under the VYC regime. there is no way a flyer should be off the same VYC as a Mk3 for example. I am sure i have seen an american rating system that has the A's divided by age.

I am watching a similar debate going on in another forum. a valid point was raised about generating your own rating's is that no one wants to stick their neck on the block for fear of disgruntled sailors. I can thoroughly empathise!

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Lets not get "personal handicaps" mixed up with yardsticks!

If a "previous" model A class is not competitive with a later make the yardstick for the "class", cannot be expected to be varied for the consideration of the "older" boat! That would be the same as setting different yardsticks for each generation of NACRA 5.8 that has been made - for the heavier older 5.8's give them a "slower" yardstick to compensate for their age/weight. That sort of thing just doesn't work. Next some one would like the yardstick changed in a class for every one over 45 that sails to a more favourable rating due to their age! A yardstick for a 420 is the same for all 420's regardless their different age and condition similarly for the A class and all other classes, BUT where there has been radical change/evolution etc to any class their comparative "update' results on the race course should be forwarded to the VYC regularly so that the yardsticks can be updated accurately. The yardsticks have nothing to do with whether the boats are "class legal" or not, it is all about their performances against other boats around a race course, and it is not only representatives of a class that are able to send representative results of races to the VYC, anyone can do it as long as the results can be verified as accurate. If the results of any races that any class that is obviously sailing at a considerably "favourable" yardstick, are forwarded to the VYC, no matter from whom those results are sent by, then the VYC are able to update the yardsticks, and they will. The major problem with maintaining correct yardsticks is not the system, but the fact that less people will get off their arses year by year, collect results and forward them to the VYC, most sailors, it would seem, would rather sit back complaining about the yardsticks and saying "some one should do something about those yardsticks". If sailors want good comparative yardsticks, that are after all, only in the best interests of the sailors, then they/we should all make the effort to ensure that results go to the VYC regularly.

I hope no one thinks that there is some sort of “magical” way that the VYC automatically gets regular results from all over Australia from which they can update the yardsticks? And that if the yardsticks for some classes are wrong it is the fault of the VYC?

This is just wrong!! The VYC‘s only source of results from which to set yardsticks is from the information sent to them. If the information isn’t forth coming then the resulting yardsticks will never change and the discrepancies between classes that do send their results and the classes that don’t will only continue to widen each year until the yardstick system becomes unusable. If that happens, say goodbye to “open regattas” and say hello to “one design” only races.

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I would invite you to read the comment made by Mal Gray on an earlier post that I placed "vyc yardsticks" it certainly made a lot of sense to me and explained how many problems arise in mixed fleet racing.... The bottom line to me is that cats should be racing cats and monos' racing monos'. If there are not enough cats at your club to have a seperate fleet then that should be enough reason for the club to go out and promote themselves to boost their memembership. I would think that for every cat in a club there would be many more not in the club.

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