HooD Posted May 5, 2002 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2002 *Yawn* Kids...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Holden Posted May 5, 2002 Report Share Posted May 5, 2002 Hood, For someone that makes such an effort to make a point about sailing 5.8 Nacras I find it had to believe that you will not cross the ditch to travel to Adelaide for the Nationals this year. 5 Boats will be coming from Cairns !!! - how many from Tas ? I suggest that you stop comparing the 5.8 against the F18 - completly different boats different formulas. The VYC is a handicap based on results taken over a long time. I think that you will find that once the F18 formula is circuit racing the VYC will come down and be more accurate. In the mean time polish that boat of yours and book some accomodation at Adelaide. You need to get some credability !. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson Posted May 5, 2002 Report Share Posted May 5, 2002 HooD, you are a forum legend; am thinking this competitive spirit would be good to see in Adelaide on the water. We will be travelling over with our 5.8 - getting sick of sailing around with A Classes here in Warrnambool. HooD why dont you call into us on the way to Adelaide and we can get some last minute training just to make sure you are in top form. Anyway we had better get off the F18 Forum. Originally posted by HooD: Kevlar you have missed the boat AGAIN. I am going to type this very slowly so you can understand it VYC Nacra 5.8 WITHOUT KITE is 72 VYC Hobie Tiger WITH KITE is 72 can you agree that the VYC for the two boats is the same? which do you think is faster in real life? [This message has been edited by Wilson (edited 05-05-2002).] [This message has been edited by Wilson (edited 05-05-2002).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolj Posted May 5, 2002 Report Share Posted May 5, 2002 Andrew, may I be so bold as to ask if I may begin a new forum topic in another thread ? I was just wondering if you can indeed shed some light on the glaring differences between the Australian 5.8 and it's overseas counterparts ?? and if, indeed the square headed mainsail is still class legal for Australia. I have always wanted to just get one and try sailing with it in a regatta just to see what reaction I would get ! Because if this class has indeed come from America, and they use the square head, then the natural thought progression would be for one to assume that it must be class legal ? Perhaps you would like to begin the new thread with your comments I look forward to hearing your thoughts Cheers And remember guys, this is an arena to air our thoughts and discuss topical issues, not to bag each other out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berthos Posted May 5, 2002 Report Share Posted May 5, 2002 coolj, No need to get permission to start a new thread, just go for it. The more the merrier! Don't forget though that this is an F18 forum not a Nacra 5.8 forum. Perhaps the Australian Cat Forum would be a better forum for such questions or a 5.8 forum if there is such a place. Keep those posts coming, I enjoy reading them. Cheers, Berthos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mal gray Posted May 6, 2002 Report Share Posted May 6, 2002 VYC tentative yardstick for Tiger is 72.Check vyc website for confirmation. Thousands of F18s exist throughout the world. About 800 Tigers have been built. About 20 tigers exist in Aust. Expanding rapidly now. Nacra 5.8 is NOT an ISAF international class!! F18 rules restrict mast profile to non-wingmast section. The weight of a Nacra 5.8 is one of the most world's greatest mysteries. I've been told for three years now, since we started this F18 thing that the Tiger was heavy and underpowered compared to the 5.8. Now I hear that they are the same weight. I don't think so! The fact is: I don't give a rats about the weight of any of these boats. I want to sail boats that perform and last. I want to race against other catsailors without yardstick. Yardstick - schmardstick! My crew and I just sailed our arses off on the weekend on a state-of-the-art boat beating everything across the line at least once and most boats, most times, only to be convincingly hammered by a 15 year old Arrow cat that was a lap behind, sailing around on its own.It was sailed very well, but its hardly a race when boats are that far apart. Ask the guys on the 5.7s with kites and the 5.8s with kites who were pushing each other to the limit in conditions that were really making them fly, if they enjoy yardstick racing. Yardsticks can never be equal. If you really want fair racing, you need to sail a controlled one-design or a controlled formula class. We all had a good time and despite being the only tiger there, the guys from the other clases were very sociable towards us. It would have been great if we were all on the one type of boat. I'm not going to buy a Nacra or Taipan and they want to sail their favourite class. The formula is the answer. Where is the satisfaction in beating others over the line if your boat is supposed to be faster? Theres lots of satisfaction if you do it in a "slower" boat! F18 is the best established international two-person formula class available. Murray's will sell you anything you want. Equipment is not necessarily class legal. I am promoting F18 because I want to sail against all the good cat sailors, not just the ones from my own class, on equal footing, with no yardstick. All F18s are capable of very similar performance. Finally, before anyone makes any comparisons about performance of particular boats, they should take into account ,the abilities and experience of those being used as an example. Brad Sumner and Kevlar can make any boat go fast and just because they wax everything at a regatta on a Tiger, does not mean the yardstick is wrong. If you can't beat someone when you sail a lighter, bigger, faster boat, you need to learn to sail it better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolj Posted May 6, 2002 Report Share Posted May 6, 2002 Hear Hear !! bring on the F18's p.s. the NACRA does look the sexiest tho eh mal ? [This message has been edited by coolj (edited 06 May 2002).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HooD Posted May 6, 2002 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2002 Originally posted by mal gray: F18 rules restrict mast profile to non-wingmast section. I whole heartedly agreed with most of your post Mal (you must have been saving it up for like a week) but two things about this statement didnt seem right firstly I checked the rules for the mast section, and they go like this: B.2. RIGGING B.2.1. THE MAST B.2.1.1. The perimeter of the mast section shall be a maximum of 385 mm. See diagram B2.1.1. B.2.1.2. The maximum distance between: the top of the forward crossbeam and the bottom of the upper measurement band of the mainsail shall be 9100 mm. B.2.1.3. The maximum distance between: the bottom of the mast section (mast heel) and the axis of the point of attachment of the highest standing rigging shall be 6750 mm. See diagram B2.1.1. B.2.1.4. The maximum distance between: the bottom of the mast section (mast heel) and the point over which the spinnaker can not be hoisted shall be 8150 mm. See diagram B2.1.4. Comments : A . When the device is fixed, or when the halyard is from the mast heel (devices a, b, c and d) before being fixed to the spinnaker, it shall be measured as defined in ISAF Equipment Rules of Sailing 1997-2000 : F.6.10. B When the device is mobile, and when the halyard is from the top of the mast (devices e and f) before being fixed to the spinnaker, the halyard when at 90% to the spar, and measured from its highest position. B.2.1.5. The mast shall be watertight. B.2.1.6. Mast foot The maximum distance between the top of the forward crossbeam and the bottom of extrusion shall be 120 mm. See Diagram. B.2.1.6. Measurement shall be taken at the point across from the axis of rotation about the pivot. B.2.1.7. The Mast Datum Point is located at the front edge of the mast, on the longitudinal axe, at the lower end of the profile. and I can not see anyplace where it says "you will not have a wing mast" the only restriction I see is that the perimeter has to be 385mm. the other thing is, on the boyer F-18 page: Using his Taipan and Tornado experience Sailmaker Greg Goodall started with a clean slate and designed the rig from scratch. He chose the same "wing 158mm x 74mm" section as the Taipan 5.7 now I KNOW there is not a Taipan f-18 in production, but and this is a BIG BUT the prototype did comply with the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Skewes Posted May 6, 2002 Report Share Posted May 6, 2002 Finally somebody has seen the point of all this. THANKYOU MAL! You guys worrying and wanking on about the VYC yardstick off this boat or that have completely missed the point of F18. F18 always has and always will be about class racing where if you cross the finish line first - you win. If you are back in the pack somewhere, then chances are you'll have a great race anyway, and will know just how you went, as the results sheet will show what you saw on the water. F*** yardsticks and all that goes with them, including this debate comparing yardsticks of different boats. As Formula 18 grows in popularity in Australia (and this picture is in the very near future, not a long way down the track), it will not matter if the F18 yardstick is 62 or 82, as we will only be racing against other F18s. Pete [This message has been edited by Pete Skewes (edited 06 May 2002).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catsailor.net Posted May 6, 2002 Report Share Posted May 6, 2002 And due to the limit on this BBS of 34 Replies to any one post, I have the great pleasure in closing this one. Next time you go sailing count the number of sabots and lasers and other large fleets Do they worry about yardsticks - No. Why - because they have close racing and all sail the same type of boat. For us catsailors the closest we can have is a group of different boats all built to a rule that tries to make them as close as practable while still allowing people choice of what brand they want to sail. Please lets start a new tread ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catsailor.net Posted May 6, 2002 Report Share Posted May 6, 2002 Oops make that 35 replies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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