QB2 Posted April 15, 2005 Report Share Posted April 15, 2005 I am looking at a (high 1800"s) sail no mari and want to know if the '-C'section tramp track down each hull is standard my first mari had the tramp flat against the hulls under a flat aluminium section but this boat has a half inch to inch high raised section of the '-C'.. Apart from that it seems to be a standard mari, altho the shrouds are fitted with snap opening carabiners instead of shackles. mast, sails, beams, boom, blocks, ropes,rudders & trailer are all good but the brown decks are faded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAX Posted April 18, 2005 Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 The C section is not standard however there is no problem in using it in Maricat events. Many of the boats racing (including previous National Champ) now use the C section as it seems stronger especially for the heavier crew weights. I am guessing the boat is a Mark 1 which has the rear traveller seperate from the rear beam? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QB2 Posted April 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 yes the traveller is separate to the beam Whats the difference between mk 1 and 2 and what should I look out for in terms of wear and tear. how competitive are mk1's to 2's. What price would a good to excellent condition 3000plus numbered mari go for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmessee Posted April 18, 2005 Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 Remember that the sail numbers are not always a tale of how old the boat is as when you get a new sail you get a new number. The beautiful Maricat I had was mid 3000's and I got a new main putting it in the 4000. When I got it she was in a bad way. The yellow decks were chalky and had tiny black spots all through it. The hulls were off white and very dull and badly scratched all over. A weekend of wet and dry and polish with a bucket load of elbow grease and they cam up trumps. The decks were shiny and the hulls were like new without a scratch anywhere to be seen, even on the very bottom. It looked like new. I then replaced all the rigging and trampoline and it was like a new boat and at about average weight too. What would be good is a new mainsail shape to get the beautiful little boats up to speed with where the technology is. A square top Pentax main on the current mast would do wonders with attracting young and new sailors to the class as there is fundamentally nothing wrong with the design of the hulls for a boardless 14 foot catamaran. Let someone like Glenn Ashby or Steve Brewin have a go at a few new shapes for mainsails and you will see the class take off again with all the young blokes wanting a hot looking catamaran. And as for brand new boats, they are lighter and stiffer, but the new main would bring the class to the 21st century for a long time. It would make it faster and also easier to sail and look absolutely hot as well which is what a great deal of the people, especially the young blokes want. I am now in an A-class and it is a great boat, but the Maricat is absolutley sensational, but there is nothing at all wrong with changing the main sail to bring it up to speed with the other classes like the 29er, cherubs and also NS14's, that so many of the great young sailors turn too because they are sexy too look at and have the latest innovations. I am not saying make a Kevlar boat, just a but of an update which many of the other cat classes have done from the Nacra's to the Tornado's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QB2 Posted April 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2005 What a weird set up. All this time I thought if you bought a new sail you put your existing old numbers on it & new numbers only went to a new boat. A new hi-tech main wouldn't do all that much for performance would it? You would need a radical hull design to get rid of flanges on the hull to deck join to allow a new square top sail to drive the boat harder. I thought the existing rig was very efficient and the limiting factor was hull shape. Most new design cats are very slim with rounded topsides ie Nacra, A class, Taipan. Would new sails make Mari's comparable to Nacra 14square/alpha omega/M5 and the touted F14's on and off the wind? That would be something to see! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAX Posted April 20, 2005 Report Share Posted April 20, 2005 agree that the setup with sail numbers is unusual. It is possible to keep your sail number with a new sail. I had original sail number 16 and kept that number when updating sails. the sail number stayed with the boat. what is an M5? The other boats you mentioned all have centreboards and I think that previous comments were about non centreboard boats? I have a squaretop sail for use on the maricat in non association events. it definately improves the boats performance both upwind and downwind. Agree that the standard sail profile is fine though. I think mostly it is the change in sail cloth that has made most of the improvement from the squaretop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QB2 Posted April 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2005 the M5 reference was the mari 5 metre. what sort of money are you talking for a high top main?. What would be the price a new material jib and spinnaker? Downwind was always the poor performance area for Maris wasn't it? So if we went to spinnakers that would remedy that problem overnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAX Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 This is from an earlier post. prices for the squaretop depend on the sail material used. If it is made from Dacron then the price is about the same as for a classic pin head sail. A list of prices for each material is given below, all of these sails seem to be an improvement over the standard sail. A$924 Dacron (as used in standard sails) A$1144 Ripstop Dacron A$1595 Pentex A$1914 Carbon I would recommend Pentex as the best value/performance of these sails and is longer wearing. I have tested each of the different materials. Have also tested a radial sail against the crosscut dacron squaretop and found the crosscut squaretop to perform better (some people might not agree with me on this I guess). Here is a pic of the squaretop on ZAX http://members.ozemail.com.au/~jmerl/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QB2 Posted April 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 I just can't get over the rake on your mast in that photo. Last question, Is $1k a fair price for an 1800's number mari including new tramp? What money would I have to pay for a 3000 plus mari ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAX Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 It is not really necessary to carry that much rake, and I do move it forward for association events. It sounds as though the maricat you are looking at is in good condition so the price seems fair. For a boat in the 3000's should find one in good order for around $2000... if you can find one. The mark 1 and 2 and even the older 14 compete equally well, no significant difference on the course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dexterstu Posted April 22, 2005 Report Share Posted April 22, 2005 The sail on my mari has the number 52. Is this likely to be the sail number that is often referred to? It seems very low, although I think the boat is a Mark 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QB2 Posted April 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 It probably is.. the cat may also have been part of a hire fleet/used at resorts if it has a low number. If you find you have extra reinforcing on the keel line the cat may have been used at a resort. Another way to check if it's an early boat is see if there is a sticker on one beam or embossed on the deck is the word 'mariglass?' or a manufacturer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rankamateur Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 my 4.3 is numbered in the low 1400's, is a mark 1 and was new in 1980. It has an aluminium sticker with mariglass on the upper surface of the front beam near the bolts. I had the reo strips put on my hulls at Inverell to survive granite dams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rankamateur Posted December 29, 2005 Report Share Posted December 29, 2005 I had another thought about your initial question, the weakest point on a mk 1 hull seems to be on deck just in front of the front beam. Both my hulls have required repair at this point. The stress seams to be too much when using a jib(sloop rig) with out the cat rig fore stays, since the jib pull in on the hulls. Once I started leaving both in place the failure stopped happening. At one stage I even built a beam between the hulls like the Caper Cats have to stop the hulls flexing, but it was a disaster sailing off the beach in the waves and also put a fair bit of weight out front where you don't need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QB2 Posted January 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 I had a foredeck crack appear in my last mari but didn't do anything about it until the crack was about 4 inches long.. when my repairer finally got to work he took out a round section the size of my hand to ensure there was no weakening of the structure.it would have been a whole lot cheaper if i had done repairs as soon as the first crack appeared. the only other problems in 20 years of mari sailing were 1 ripping the alloy side stay off one windy day. It was just barely screwed through the flange and was an easy & quick repair. 2 the front beam slowly collapsed when the dolphin striker let go in a pitchpole, the beam itself had huge unseen corrosion around the mast fitting. 3 the rear beam mounting tore out in a race which meant a long slow trip back to shore hanging off a hull shroud to try to keep the waterlogged hull up. still don't know why this happened but the previous owners and his mate who both weighed 15 stone (90-100kgs) only took the cat out on Lake macquarie when it was howling, the wonder is I didn't have huge repair bills as the cat had been through tremendous stresses and strains. I hit the beach at high speed in an onshore gale and while the hull looked ok I found I had fractured a large section about a metre long. My local fibreglasser was then doing student training and needed boats to work on so I got the repairs done for $50 in materials. I didn't know until he told me of the damage done. considering some of the rough treatment I dished out to my boats over the years I have to say they were a well made robust product. I certainly wouldn't mind another one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rankamateur Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 I must have had a brain explosion about the mk 1 sticker on the front beam, It is actually a J & S Fiberglass mfg sticker, Mariglass is of course the manufacturer or the mk2 and 5.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinb Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Originally posted by Emmessee: Remember that the sail numbers are not always a tale of how old the boat is as when you get a new sail you get a new number. The beautiful Maricat I had was mid 3000's and I got a new main putting it in the 4000. When I got it she was in a bad way. The yellow decks were chalky and had tiny black spots all through it. The hulls were off white and very dull and badly scratched all over. A weekend of wet and dry and polish with a bucket load of elbow grease and they cam up trumps. The decks were shiny and the hulls were like new without a scratch anywhere to be seen, even on the very bottom. It looked like new. I then replaced all the rigging and trampoline and it was like a new boat and at about average weight too. What would be good is a new mainsail shape to get the beautiful little boats up to speed with where the technology is. A square top Pentax main on the current mast would do wonders with attracting young and new sailors to the class as there is fundamentally nothing wrong with the design of the hulls for a boardless 14 foot catamaran. Let someone like Glenn Ashby or Steve Brewin have a go at a few new shapes for mainsails and you will see the class take off again with all the young blokes wanting a hot looking catamaran. And as for brand new boats, they are lighter and stiffer, but the new main would bring the class to the 21st century for a long time. It would make it faster and also easier to sail and look absolutely hot as well which is what a great deal of the people, especially the young blokes want. I am now in an A-class and it is a great boat, but the Maricat is absolutley sensational, but there is nothing at all wrong with changing the main sail to bring it up to speed with the other classes like the 29er, cherubs and also NS14's, that so many of the great young sailors turn too because they are sexy too look at and have the latest innovations. I am not saying make a Kevlar boat, just a but of an update which many of the other cat classes have done from the Nacra's to the Tornado's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinb Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Originally posted by Emmessee: Remember that the sail numbers are not always a tale of how old the boat is as when you get a new sail you get a new number. The beautiful Maricat I had was mid 3000's and I got a new main putting it in the 4000. When I got it she was in a bad way. The yellow decks were chalky and had tiny black spots all through it. The hulls were off white and very dull and badly scratched all over. A weekend of wet and dry and polish with a bucket load of elbow grease and they cam up trumps. The decks were shiny and the hulls were like new without a scratch anywhere to be seen, even on the very bottom. It looked like new. I then replaced all the rigging and trampoline and it was like a new boat and at about average weight too. What would be good is a new mainsail shape to get the beautiful little boats up to speed with where the technology is. A square top Pentax main on the current mast would do wonders with attracting young and new sailors to the class as there is fundamentally nothing wrong with the design of the hulls for a boardless 14 foot catamaran. Let someone like Glenn Ashby or Steve Brewin have a go at a few new shapes for mainsails and you will see the class take off again with all the young blokes wanting a hot looking catamaran. And as for brand new boats, they are lighter and stiffer, but the new main would bring the class to the 21st century for a long time. It would make it faster and also easier to sail and look absolutely hot as well which is what a great deal of the people, especially the young blokes want. I am now in an A-class and it is a great boat, but the Maricat is absolutley sensational, but there is nothing at all wrong with changing the main sail to bring it up to speed with the other classes like the 29er, cherubs and also NS14's, that so many of the great young sailors turn too because they are sexy too look at and have the latest innovations. I am not saying make a Kevlar boat, just a but of an update which many of the other cat classes have done from the Nacra's to the Tornado's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knobblyoldjimbo Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 I read the rules for mains (from the website) and it would appear that they require a 6060mm leech and there are length rules for battens which appear to be max length. This would allow a full square top main like the one in the pic. There are also other materials like dimension polyant flex which is designed as a cross cut material although it seems to be only available in 4.9oz which might be a bit heavy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAX Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 maybe I should take my squaretop to the Nats and see how it measures in It really would not be fair to use it currently in an association event as it is a much quicker sail compared to the standard cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lachy pudney Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 What is the case in the nationals about sail makers?? is it the same as it is with crew weights where what was changed only applies for NSW events?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pointed Reply Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Interesting questions. The head board size may rule out the square top. The rules do not appear to mention specific sailmakers, just "approved sail makers", so all sailmakers would appear to be OK as long as they meet the specifications. Any other opinions ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lachy pudney Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 yeah coz in the past i thought the only approved ones were, Adams, Flower, Eastwind Sails and chris cairns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knobblyoldjimbo Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 I'm just a noob so I'm just saying what strikes me. I'm sure the headboard wouldn't have an impact on the measurement (except that it has to be a certain size). I don't think the shape is regulated, only the dimensions. Zax, I thought your square top was carbon, doesn't that rule it out. I also would have thought that the arms race that seems to be going on anyway would allow experimentation, the pic of the 'lost' green sail would also look like a high top compared to the older shapes. As to square top I wouldn't think your's has gone as far as it could when you look at other boats (A cats, Open 5.7's etc) there does seem to be some positive comments about them but might require a stiffer mast. As to material, I'd have thought that with a fully battened sail the only thing that carbon would give is lighter weight. I'd just like to tack properly, oh, and if I remember to put the bungs in I might keep up with one or two of you!!! KO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knobblyoldjimbo Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 oh yes, Eastwind Sails, Dave made a main for my Careel 18 - it crackles like a firecracker (high resin content apparently) !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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