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Nats 2006


Humungus
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Thanks for the compertition at mannering park everyone, There was such a difference in the mari cat fleet. The young guys are catching up fast.

Hey John, back to the old question.

Will the foam sandwich boats be wearing weights at the nats.

With you and Wayne haveing new sails for the nats it is going to be a waste of time for all the old heavy mari's if we don't make it a bit even.

Can we get the class measurer the do a weigh in. Mine like most old maris weighs in at around 130kg fully rigged. I think the new foam sandwich ones are around 95kg fully rigged. Is that right?

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  • 2 weeks later...

At Tanilba Bay we now have 13 mari cats. All cat rigged. It has been sugested we weigh Hulls with rudders attached and tramp on, of all the boats and take an average weight.

Then weigh each skipper as our sailors range from 65kg to 115kg and then take an average weight and have a conbined weight for cat rigged and a different one for sloop due to the crew.

eg: boats in our club 95kg - 120kg as set out above. average 107.5kg

Skipper 65kg - 115kg Average 90kg

Total combined weight 197.5kg minimun example only.

This method was mentiond at the AGM and I think it should be introduced.

Mybe the class mesurer could come to Tanilba with a set of scales and make it official, then have a vote on it so we can make it happen for the nats. I know John and Wayne are happy to carry weights if it makes things fairer.

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Hey Guys that system doesn't take in a few factors such as hull stiffness and different breezes. So guys like me who may have a reasonably light boat and skipper could be disadvantaged in a blow because of boat stiffness as well as losing our only advantage(weight). the only thing that would do would be to bring the light guys back to the fleet in the light breezes and put them behind the fleet when its windy.

Lachy

Pudney

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What I can't understand is why the rules were allowed to change so that foam sandwich maricats could be produced for racing. If people wanted a foam sandwich cat they could sail in another type of catamaran. What happens if someone comes up with some other material that is somewhat lighter and stronger than foam sandwich? Then we have to go through the whole thing again. Keep it simple I say. Just a thought.

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Hey guys,

There is already a weight limit of 65kg so that is not a real issue, and it would allow the lighter crews to have an advantage in light winds and the heavier crews an advantage when it blows, like every other class.

The weighing of the platforms would be an excellent idea though making the racing between new and old boats more even, and would attract more boats for competition.

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sorry about the late reply on this, have not been online lately.

To answer your question, yes.. as always, ZAX will be carrying required weights to be legal for the Nationals. Last year I carried weights to be 3 kg over minimum. There was not that much difference in speed between the top boats at the Nationals or the State Titles held at Toukley. Please keep in mind that Wayne has been winning the NAtionals for quite a few years now, he is likely to win again this year.. not just because of his boat. Lachy and others are also very likely to challenge him on this.

ZAX is below minimum weight until I carry the required additional weights. I believe that Wayne's boat is actually fairly much spot on minimum or slightly over. The reason Wayne's boat is heavier is because mine was the first built and it was not really known what it would weigh in at until completed. Once the weight was known the factory added weight to the newer ones to increase strength. I would say Wayne has a better maricat than I do, and also anyone buying a new boat from the factory will have a better one than mine. the boats are great, and I would encourage anyone that is able to.. buy one !

We had this discussion last year and voted on it at the AGM held at Toukley, foam boats are class legal maricats and the minimum weight has not been changed.

What I would personally like to see, although it needs to be voted on.. is to remove the skipper minimum weight completely. This should encourage the younger sailors in the fleet.

I weigh in at 97kg and ZAX weighs in at 95+ weighted, I am sure the younger guys even on a boat over minimum weight could have an all up weight less than what myself and Wayne are. I think at the moment it is more the sails and rig tuning that are giving us an advantage in the fleet.

There was an item raised at the AGM on all up weight i.e. that all up weight be taken into account so that a heavy skipper with a light boat and a light skipper with a heavy boat could be factored.

What are people's thoughts on that? It is an item to be raised again at the next AGM.

cheers !

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Revolution is right.

However it would be interesting to get an actual weight at the nationals to see how much heaver the hulls are. A rough weight on my boat fully rigged was 120kg. Any one else got a weight on theirs. It seems the minimun weight was imposable to get down to in the 80s. Skipper weights were measured and weights carried but never the boats.

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I contributed to earlier threads on boat weights. We have weighed quite a few platforms (including rudder assemblies) of the local Hobart fleet in recent times and the weight range has been from 85 kgs up to just over 100kgs. The all-up weights would range from about 100kgs to 120kgs. In the local fleet the lighter boats are faster, but they have better gear and are also set up and sailed by more experienced skippers.

We also weighed some platforms and rigs in the late 1970s and these too were well over minimum weight. The original Maricat 14s may have been lighter but the Maricat 4.3s were solid.

If I remember correctly the minimum skippers weight of 63.5 kgs (10 stone in the old terms)was the estimated minimum weight required to right a capsized Maricat without assistance.

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Revolution, I tend to agree with you in that there is not much can be done, If you are a heavier skipper on an old and heavy boat then your chances of winning the Nationals are lower than average...

that said, while you are on a heavier boat what you can do is work on your sailing technique until you are in a position of having a competitive boat.

This is the case in most classes that I know of, usually don't really expect to win a Nationals unless you are a good skipper with a well prepared boat.

The maricat fleet is aging and there have not been new boats for some time prior to myself and Wayne getting new boats.

Wayne's old boat was damaged at the last Nationals and his new boat is a replacement.

My own reason for getting a new boat was primarily for strength, I was concerned that Sweet16 may not be strong enough to carry a kite, the new boats are much stronger than the old ones. I was looking at racing in F14 at the time... F14 is still in its early stages so I have not pursued it further.

The minimum weight has not been changed for maricats in their history, what we have now is no different from what was the case in the past. My previous boat called Flashback which won the NSW State Titles in 84, 85 and 86 was a heavy but strong boat and at that time I was a light weight skipper carrying weights. Until now I have not heard so many comments about boat weights and did not really think it made that much difference as opposed to getting a good sail and having the boat tuned well. At 97 kg I am cetainly no longer a light weight skipper.

Darcy has been sailing quite well lately, beating myself, Wayne and others in recent races.. he is heavier than myself and his boat is not a light weight, he is doing well because he is a very good skipper and is getting into boat tuning.

When I arrived at last years Nationals with the new boat there were no complaints from the Cat rigged sailors including Wayne and Lachy and the racing was close between us. Wayne was faster is strong airs... although I beat him in the strongest wind race after he capsized. Lachy was quicker in the lighter breezes alothough I got him in one light wind race when he ran aground.

Personally I think that some of the comments about a 95kg boat having such an advantage are not accurate. If I was still sailing Sweet16, I would not be concerned about others sailing a minimum weight new mari.. it is well tuned with a good sail and would be able to compete ok with the new ones.

All up weight i.e. boat fully rigged plus skipper/crew are an important factor in racing, but there are many other important factors in racing... would be nice to move on to some of the other area's such as boat tuning... since the new boats are great and class legal, there is no point in complaining about them.. lets just get on with other things that can improve the fleet such as tuning.

Humungus has always been a well tuned boat even though it is apparantly very heavy. Any tips on tuning for the rest of us? Steve and Peter Breadon were always very fast, maybe they can also pass on some tips?

Most likely I will not be sailing Cat Rigged at the Nationals... so there is only one new boat to be worried about smile.gif

cheers !

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this is all true. the light wieght newer boats are beatable. personally i dont really care im hear to have fun. but in the light wind they are just unbeatable. that 30 kgs less makes alot of difference. and as for tuning our boats whatever can be done to our older boats can be done to the newer maris aswell so you guys will always have an advantage.

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