xmatelot Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 "ca ne fait rien" pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAX Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 appology accepted, no probs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAX Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 To Pointed Reply, I believe you got the 2 boats mixed up. It was not the foamy that came in at 68kg. Thats what I am saying, this thread is based on an incorrect initial statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humungus2 Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 I weighed Sandwich Action on a set of butcher scales at tanilba with severl other boats. the platform with rudders weighed in at 72kg. What is the weight of Mast, boom, blocks, sail, stays & chain plates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humungus2 Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 PS: not a rough weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAX Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 Historically the rig was given an approximate weight of 15kg. But the newer rigs are heavier than that, the stiffer mast section and boom bring the weight up more than 18kg. Sandwich action has the stiffer mast section and boom so the rig is on the heavy side. My rig weighes in at 18kg but all vary. I am using the stiffer mast section but the old section boom. the stays we use now are also heavier than the old flexible wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAX Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 I agree with Pointed Reply that "The skipper of each boat is responsible to ensure that their boat meets the class requirements." It is also the skippers responsibility to ensure they race fairly within the rules. Boat weight is just one of many rules. At the end of the day if a competitor feels that another skipper has breached any one of a number of rules on the water the option is open to protest. Personally I would encourage people to pursue this option rather than complain. If you do not wish to put in a protest then accept that all is good and get on with the business of racing Another option may be that for someone who feels strongly about boat weights. Nominate to become the measurer at the next AGM and start weighing boats ! Seems all too easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lachy pudney Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 So does that mean Sandwich Action is underweight by 3-7 kg?? I think this shows that all new boats should be weighed and rigs as well (or at least get a rig weight) as they do in most classes, just too be sure there is no illegal advantage to any boats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pointed Reply Posted November 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 Thank you Mick for the clarification. So 72+18=90 which is 5 less than 95. For more than two years people have been debating the merits of the foamies. We now finally know that some boats are lighter than the rules allow. As office bearers of the Maricat Association we were elected to uphold the constitution and objectives of the Maricat Association and its members. If the foamies are brought up to 95kg then there is no doubt that they meet the class regulations and should sail in ANY regatta or State or National Title without any crew weight penalty. For years other 14ft cats like the Paper Tigers have left the Maricats behind, but now the best Maricats are up with or in front of the PTs, which is where the Yardsticks say they should be. So if the "rest" want to compete we need to get a modern Maricat. The Windies have a Classic division for those who don't want or can't afford an expensive new boat, so this is possibly where the Maricat class will also end up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humungus2 Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 All foamies will be weighed with a set of feshly calibrated butcher scales before entering the Nats. This will require the assistance of all the foam sandwich skippers and committee members. The nats will be run under the national consitution so the modified rules for the states will not apply. Any questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humungus2 Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 OK Rodney, The Manufacturer weighs each boat before sending it out. They are the ones suppling the corect weight boats. My scales may be different to theirs. We will be clarifing with certified scales, for example a weigh bridge. I will get back to you on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stb-tack Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 At last we are starting to make sense of it all. In another post on another thread about the same subject It was suggested to run a separate class for the two boats until a better solution could be found. Sounds like that could be where we will end up. Mick, the only local weighbridge scales that will be accurate enough for under 100kg boats are on the Williamtown RAAF Base and are not for public use. (some minor security issue I believe). The weighbridge at the Port Stephens Council Depot is accurate to within 20kg, not quite accurate enough. Although your scales cannot be certified they are still very accurate. Both the following examples were weighed on both. Cat-Chi maricat 4.3 Mk1 (cat rigged) Platform 88kg Mast Rigging & Boom 14.8kg (old mast no stiffeners) Sail 5.1kg Running Rigging 2.5kg Total 110.4 kg una-sail-able maricat 5.0 (Sloop rigged) Platform = 100kg Mast Boom and rigging = 28.5kg Sails = 9kg Running Rigging = 5kg Total 142.5 kg Sloop fully rigged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 rrr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stb-tack Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 Have your say Pedro, rrr, that is what forums are all about. We are all entitled to express our opinion. There are those that work toward change and those that are happy with the status quo. We need both. I will be the first to buy a new 4.3 if i am not going to being discriminated against because I do or do not weigh x no of kg. I wager there are others the same as me. There is a bigger picture than a couple of 2-bit sailing clubs. Changes made need to be in the best interest of all, not just a select few. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 WOW.what a lot of rubbish this is. The N.S.W. rules are correct. The new boats are fantastic. The old boats can compete with them. I think mick (the N.S.W. AUST. and WORLD MARICAT CHAMP.)and myself are very evenly matched.This season we have raced 12 times most at regattas. mick( the N.S.W. AUST. and WORLD MARICAT CHAMP )Has won 6 times and 6 to me, on my old boat and sail.at regattas mick(the N.S.W. AUST. and WORLD CHAMP.)will not lose a race. THIS IS IMPORTANT TO HIM, so this is a good test.....JUST GO AND SAIL YOUR MARICAT AND HAVE FUN...........TRUST ME......PIRATE.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAX Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 Historically I can't remember ever being too far behind the paper tigers or any of the other 14s ? I do notice it recently but that is largely due to many of the maricat guys now weighing in at 90kg plus. During the 80s it would have been rare to see anyone of that weight being competitive. I think the Paper Tigers are also quicker now than they were back then. the windies are certainly faster now around the course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stb-tack Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 You are dead right Pedro and I do trust you, but unfortunately you miss the point. To be fair to all it must be a level playing field regardless of what the results may say. That way it endures past the day we old farts give up and continues for those coming behind us. It is not about two or three boats or clubs, but two or three thousand. If there is a minimum boat weight we must adhere to it as it is part of the legal entity called 'The Maricat Association'. If adding weight to skippers weight was part of the MA then that would be legal as well. If we are going to change the constitution then do it the right way and nobody has cause to argue. PS Have bought another 4.3 for the nationals as am having trouble getting any of the 5.0s (short of buying another one) out of the closet to sail against. PS There is a M 5.0 for loan if anybody wants to sail it in the nationals. That would make two of us, a guaranteed second place 50/50 for a first. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAX Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 Finally I see something really sensible. JUST GO AND SAIL YOUR MARICAT AND HAVE FUN ! The 2008 Nationals should be alot of fun. Hope to see everyone there. sorry Mick, but you won't win this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humungus2 Posted November 9, 2007 Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 See you at Mannering Park tomorrow if the wether is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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