Guest SUPERMAN Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 MAYBE USING A MARI MAST WITH THE SQUARE TOP SAIL ON THE TIGER WE COULD CHASE DOWN THE HEAVY MARIS........ USE LINK BELOW TO SEE SQUARE TOP PIC. http://members.ozemail.com.au/~jmerl/ AND BE THE CHAMP F14 !!!!!! ANY IDEAS GUYS??????? MAYBE ONLY TIGERS OVER 10 YR OLD THAT ARE NOT COMPETITIVE IN TIGER CLASS ONLY???? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAX Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Is it true that Paper Tigers over 10 years old do not remain competitive in the class? Would be nice to see a competitive tiger come and race at the 14 regattas. Which is currently quicker comparing an Arrow to a competitive PT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Superman/Zax, One of the reasons the Paper Tiger class has been so successful (regularly fleets of around 50 at Nationals) is because change has been gradual. However, even these changes have not affected the size of the sails, the shape of the hulls, or the minimum weight, so older boats in good condition can remain competitive. Hulls over 20 years old have done very well at major events, assuming they have a reasonable sail and a good skipper! Another great thing about PTs is that they are a joy to sail. An average boat that is reasonably well set up feels great to sail and travels through the water nicely. Changing such a well designed boat to incorporate a bigger rig would undoubtedly affect this situation for the worse. The greatest enjoyment for the average PT sailor is not in trying to beat other 14ft cats but in trying to be competitive in a fleet of 50 Paper Tigers. Racing doesn't get much better than that! However, we still enjoy mixed fleet events and are fairly competitive, depending on the wind conditions. Obviously though, competing against one of the latest F14 style boats is a pretty tough ask. There will be some competitive PTs at Mannering Park and there are always some at Koonawarra Bay's 14ft Regatta. Re the Arrows, depends on conditions, but generally the Arrow would be a tad quicker. Dave Stumbles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAX Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 thanks Dave, look forward to seeing the PTs at Mannering Park and following up with a visit to Koonawarra next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornado Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 I think fot a PT to run a kite it might be a good idea to try diamonds..... pre-bent mast with rotation. How about a cut down Taipan wing mast. You may also like to look at the strenght of the beams.... in particular the front. [This message has been edited by tornado (edited 13 November 2004).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted November 15, 2004 Report Share Posted November 15, 2004 Once again, though, the trouble is you no longer have a Paper Tiger. Whilst you could conceivably change the rig between F14 and PT events, changing the front beam would be much more of a hassle. The great class racing that PTs enjoy is generally more attractive to the sailors than the F14 concept. However, that doesn't mean they won't enjoy being part of F14 events. There was a guy with a PT platform at Port Kembla SC some years ago who put a Prindle 15 rig on it. I'm not sure how it performed, but he didn't seem to be there that long. I've never seen the boat since. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zeta Posted November 17, 2004 Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 I think the stability of the Paper Tiger rules is one of the class strengths, but i also think it would be a great blast to be able to have a boat capable of racing in a mixed F14 style fleet, and i think the tiger's hulls would adapt very well to a stronger mast/main beam combo. Would be nice to be able to trap instead of hiking out too! Dunno if i'd be able to keep a kite under control for very long though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warbird Posted November 2, 2006 Report Share Posted November 2, 2006 I have sailed PTs for 15 years. Last was a wonderful foam core. I thought that a tear drop but not full wing with diamonds would be a good choice of mast and square top, sure but the boat also needs a hooter. I ran mine with a spinny a few times and yes it showed promise. PTs plane easily and this is where to gain real spead advantage up anad down wind. Fact is being able to get rid of a big jib at will would give the boat great choices in performance. And yes, don't have a crossover boat.. dedicate the boat to F14 and add trapeze as well. Even with the old sail and a jib the boat would sort the Maris. Originally posted by SUPERMAN: MAYBE USING A MARI MAST WITH THE SQUARE TOP SAIL ON THE TIGER WE COULD CHASE DOWN THE HEAVY MARIS........ USE LINK BELOW TO SEE SQUARE TOP PIC. http://members.ozemail.com.au/~jmerl/ AND BE THE CHAMP F14 !!!!!! ANY IDEAS GUYS??????? MAYBE ONLY TIGERS OVER 10 YR OLD THAT ARE NOT COMPETITIVE IN TIGER CLASS ONLY???? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoom Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 yes I was thinking the same thing. I thought the carbon mast off a contender would almost be about right, but with less roach in the main and a squaretop. It would be interesting to be out on the wire on a PT thats for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warbird Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 Better than interesting. I had most of the kit saved up to do it and then got a Taipan project boat. I think I will still do it. I am just waiting for the right hulls to turn up. It is not that I don't think the PT is not a lovely boat as is. I still love them. But I just know that with some real added power plaining up wind and down would be a blast. I had the older sister to the PT, the Tiger Shark and it sat up steady on a broad reach and plained like a spead boat... Originally posted by shoom: yes I was thinking the same thing. I thought the carbon mast off a contender would almost be about right, but with less roach in the main and a squaretop. It would be interesting to be out on the wire on a PT thats for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoom Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 with what rig? I have always wanted to see what the tiger shark looked like, do you have any pics you could post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl J Barrett Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 If the top of a spinnaker was supported from the top hound position on a standard PT mast, most of the loads (except a very small increase in compression down the mast) are taken by the rigging and virtually none by the mast itself, which means that a spinnaker could be added to a “standard” tiger with no other alteration to the boat other than the associated fittings for the spinnaker which could be set up so that they could be fitted and removed very quickly. The tiger does not require an “enormous” spinnaker to make it perform exceptionally better down wind, and the way that a cat reacts downwind with a kite means that it is certainly not necessary to fit trapeze wires. All the extra performance can be handled quite comfortably sailing with a kite from “inboard”, In fact it is much easier to sail downwind with a kite on a 14’ cat than it is without. The cat is much more manageable and controllable, albeit much faster. Even a kite of only 9 to 10 sqm would make a tiger get up and boogie off wind, and as long as it was cut flat, it could be sailed and controlled by the lightest weight crew. If anything, the kite seems to reduce the loads on the structure, I.E beams and beam mountings, down wind compared to downwind without kite. The spinnaker seems to “lift the bows up and over waves instead of the bows being driven through the waves without the kite. You only have to look at the virtual matchsticks on many of the mono hulled boats that are used to support quite enormous spinnaker areas to appreciate that the tiger mast, if the spinnaker is supported at the right place. Should have no concerns at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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