HooD Posted November 10, 2007 Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 ISAF Delares Itself To Be Monohulls Only - No Multihulls in 2012 internet - Friday, November 09, 2007 By mpg The ISAF Council meeting began with a discussion of the recommended Events Committee slate which included Multihull Open (Event). However, it did not include a Keelboat event for either Men or Women. Primarily because of this, the Events Committee slate of events narrowly missed receiving a majority: the vote was 16 In Favor, 19 Against, 1 Abstain The Council then started over again, and voted for 6 Events for Men/Open & 4 Events for Women. 6 & 4 passed easily: the vote was 29 In Favor, 7 Against, 0 Abstain The Council then voted on the Events that they wanted. Both Keelboats were voted in. The Multihull and one of the 2 person Womens dinghies were voted out. Notes on the Council Discussion: Chris Atkins (GBR) was very strongly in favor of the Events Committee slate (which included a Multihull(Open) Event Eric Tulla (PUR) was strongly in favor of the lasers, simple dinghies, and multihulls that are widely used by youth in his region. Charlie Cook (USA) was strongly in favor of the Keelboats and a proponent of dropping the multihull. John Cribbin (IRL) was strongly in favor of the Keelboats and strongly opposed to any 'Open' event. Theresa Lara (VEN) strong support for Chris Atkins’ position Spain, France, & Russia also supported multihulls. France and Russia voted against the Events Committee slate because they wanted keelboats to be added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berny Posted November 10, 2007 Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 http://www.sailing.org/21257.php?PHPSESSID=e6cf5e7f6953efa9cbce5e99d282ab98 Now we can get on with organising and paying into our own International Racing Council. No point in supporting the ISAF any longer. Berny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchlb44 Posted November 10, 2007 Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 Very Sad... Clearly not a "Perfect Showcase" as ISAF President Göran Peterson suggests... It seems a little crazy to vote for 2012 before success/failure in 2008 has been monitored!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leapin Leroy Posted November 11, 2007 Report Share Posted November 11, 2007 Well, Well, Well, It is obviously true that the bias still exists within the minds of these infantile, turgid (look it up) wankers that are supposedly out there to represent the majority in our sport. 10 f*@king sailing events in the Olympics (for Mono/half boats) AND NOT 1 Multihull discipline???? Hardly seems fitting that NO MULTIHULL gets representation at the pinnacle of our sport! Especially when the most televised, watched and attended regatta's throughout Europe and possibly the world are multihull events. I would strongly suggest that globally, we start to resign or not renew our memberships with our "peak" national bodies. You can also advise your disgust by starting with phil.jones@yachting.org.au, this person is the CEO of our peak body! I'm sure he will protest his innocence, "put to a vote, blah, blah, blah". NOT GOOD ENOUGH PHIL! YOU DIDN'T LOBBY HARD ENOUGH PHIL! I will happily bombard all the members of the international committee. These same bastards probably still believe that the earth is flat, NASA didn't really land on the moon amd women and coloured's shouldn't vote!!! What are you going to do about it? Be one of the one's who was once apathetic now just doesn't care.... OR ARE YOU GOING TO LET THEM KNOW? I have a copy of the constitution of the UKCRA & others, lets get all regular participants who have a silver card, resigning with a long loud rasberry to the establishment! Any clubs that only race MULTI'S, i dare you to put it to a vote of your members about whether you stay aligned with Yachting Australia! or choose an alternative! Please let's get together & do something about this! Regards, Leroy;( [This message has been edited by Leapin Leroy (edited 11 November 2007).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgh Posted November 11, 2007 Report Share Posted November 11, 2007 From my neophytic perspective .. I am not at all surprised. I read about the proposal ages ago , and the multihull chat pages have been almost completely mute...not much point squealing after the horse has bolted Leroy.. As an outsider , I'm sure my vision of the multihull groups is wrong .. but to me there seems to be a slight lack of interest /direction/ organisation. Maybe everyone is too busy making competing versions of the wheel. It seems you can have a commercial racing multihull for every day of the month and maybe still have a few spare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HooD Posted November 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2007 Gee I dont know tgh, Its probably a bit harsh to label all multihull groups "without focus" Certainly many multihull organisation's that are thriving and achieving thier goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradk Posted November 11, 2007 Report Share Posted November 11, 2007 hi guyscoming from a club that when i started sailing back in the early 80s consisted of 4 monohulls to 1 cat it appeared back then that the multihulls were just a passing phase. But since coming back in to that same club some 16 years later was very happy to see a major turn around with the ratio being 4 cats to 1 mono . Having started out in the mono fleet and then moving to the cats it is amazing to see the advancement of all sailing boats in the last 20 or so years . To not have a multihull event on the world stage really does show how small minded the memebers of these committees are. Bradk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bundy Posted November 11, 2007 Report Share Posted November 11, 2007 If you disagree with ISAF's recent decision then please sign the petition which can be found at http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/multihullinolympics/index.html The press release from UKCRA can also be found at www.asnr29.dsl.pipex.com/UKCRA_Press_Release_20071110.doc Just for the record Yachting Australia did support the multihull. Phil Jones was a active supporter of the multihull in the Events Committee which did recommend to the ISAF Council the multihull should be included and Australia’s two representatives on the Council David Kellet (ISAF Vice President) and David Tillett both voted for the multihull (I have seen the ballot papers) However, I have lost all faith in the ISAF and especially the council decision making process. Sailing has taken a massive backwards step not only eliminating the multihull but not implementing the women's high performance skiff or the woman's multihull. Keeping the double handed dinghy and not moving with the times. Our sport had the chance to take a massive jump in London 2012 (finally an Olympics with maybe wind) but our sport has been destroyed by a council made up of inactive un-youthful ex sailors living in the past. The multihull has been discriminated against, it was the easy option. Despite multihulls making up for 25% of the sailing fraternity we have very little representation on the ISAF council. They are all elderly keel boat sailors. I'm surprised the multihull got so close to defeating the keel boats. I am at fault not believing ISAF would discriminate against a whole diverse discipline in the Olympics. The lobbying, Pub parties and deals that go on in the corridors before the ISAF Council meeting is just wrong. How can they throw out the Events committee recommendations after all they are ISAF's experts that are in touch with the sailing communities. Well life is good if you are a 70kg monohull sailor..Do you sail 1. Laser 2. 470 or 3. 49er If your a woman high performance sailor like Carolijn Brouwer you have zero options as you cant event revert back to 49er as its men only. Yngling or 470 would just be to painful to go back to. Even one high-performance woman's class would be beneficial whether it be a skiff or there are many cat classes suitable like the Viper a 16 foot high performance catamaran, wing mast, spinnaker and double trapeze. (www.ahpc.com.au/m_viper1.htm). Woman's multihull did not stand a chance as ISAF have no idea how many woman are active in the Multihull world with 100 alone competing in a one day event each year in Texel. Imagine how good the sport would have been covered if we had: Men&Woman Single hander, M&W Double hander (preferably high performance) M&W sailboard, M&W Multihull and M&W keel boat. How simple & all aspects covered. So how do we save sailing before the ISAF undermine the sport completely? Multihull need to break away from the ISAF after all they have shown they only have monohull interests in mind. We need the International Multihull Sailing Federation. How long will the multihull stay in the youth Worlds? it already struggled to stay. Its time to take a stand! [This message has been edited by Bundy (edited 12 November 2007).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meatballs Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 Just a email from David Brookes Executive Director International Hobie Class Association Hi, Sorry for the slow reply but at present I am still travelling home. I am sure with global warming Europe is moving further away. If I may comment on some of the discussions: Phil Jones CEO of Yachting Australia is on the ISAF Events Committee and the Events Committee did SUPPORT multihulls. Phil is well known and respected in ISAF and has great political knowledge. Every morning he invited me to breakfast and discussed the events of the previous day and what was planned on the day. His knowledge and insight was very useful. Both he and Chris Atkins RYA (Events and Council) supported multihulls. I am sure without their support the multihull would have been defeated in the Events Committee. Chris Atkins speech to the ISAF Council was the most accurate, intelligent speech of the whole debate. The RYA have come out and said they have supported multihulls and the decision of the ISAF Council is a backward step for sailing. On the voting sheets it is clear that all the Australians voted for the multihull as did the RYA representative. From my personal dealings with YA and RYA I feel quite confident they are multihull friendly so I would urge that we do not throw rocks at our friends. I did notice that one person voted against the multihull when his own federation had asked him to vote for the multihull. When he found out and saw I had the voting sheets he turned white and ran out of the room. I think it is only right I formally show his MNA how he voted. I hope they remove him from Council. I would also ask them if they will write to ISAF and inform ISAF that their Council member voted against their will and the vote should be retaken. It is a long shot but certainly worth investigating. What is important is that not one US Sailing person voted for the multihull. I put this down to the meddling of one person. This person is a bully and uses his size to their advantage. I would fully support an action to remove this person from representing anybody in any capacity. What seems incredible is there must be at least 2,000 multihull sailors in US Sailing and probably 10 star sailors. So effectively they have alienated all these members for the few. If anybody believes the Star is a fair representative of keel boat sailing they show they have no knowledge of sailing. The Star is a unique boat which has some great (old) sailors. The Star has some of best close racing but it does not get younger sailors into our sport. It is interesting that ISAF said they needed to increase the number of countries in the Olympics (get to 70), I seriously doubt with the disciplines chosen they will get to that figure unless they do some fudging of the figures. So with these disciplines sailing must be in serious trouble for the Olympics after 2016. So in conclusion I would not get angry with YA or RYA which did the absolute correct thing with both the multihull and the sport of sailing. Phil Jones (YA) and Chris Atkins (RYA) are the good guys. If you wish to look where it was lost it was with US Sailing delegation. You would have to ask what direction the board of US Sailing gave to the delegates. If US Sailing didn’t give any guidance to their delegates that is bad governance and they should be removed. If they gave the direction to put the Star in over the multihull then you must ask what drugs they are on. If they gave direction to vote for the multihull and their delegates ignored the direction then they should be immediately and publically removed from their ISAF positions. Regards David David Brookes Executive Director International Hobie Class Association Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mal gray Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 OK, I'll be the devil's advocate. Perhaps multihulls have no say in the decision making process because we have little representation where it counts. How many enthusiastic catsailors do much more for the sport, than turn up for races? We are an enthusiastic group of competitors, supported by a very small bunch of dedicated workers who can't really make enough difference to swing the weight of opinion. How many of us have ever been to a club meeting, much less a meeting of our state Yachting assoc? Its all very well to claim that we are a force to be reckoned with, but where is our support where it counts? Sorry, but I think that we catsailors, ourselves are to blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leapin Leroy Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 Mal, I think that you are very right to some degree with what you have said... But, I didn't know "joe public" could attend those meetings... I also think that Bundy's sentiments are spot on, there is more wheeling & dealing than we could ever imagine and it probably is time we took a stand and started our own thing... It's probably a matter of point and shoot... I am extremely keen to start something but i just don't know exactly how... I'd be very happy to provide the energy and some of the resources, if someone could point me in the right direction!!! (Particularly as my fat old arse is formally retired from the competition scene)...LOL... Any one who wants to discuss this can get hold of me via; lpolden@optusnet.com.au Regards, Leroy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mal gray Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 Leroy, every affiliated class is invited (read urged) to elect a YQ delegate to attend Monthly Queensland Yachting meetings. My guess is, that other than David Brookes, the catamaran represention at these meetings is zero. Please excuse me if I am wrong. In other states there is some cat representation (Pres YV is a catsailor) but probably not enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 What a load of crap If I where running the olympics the classes of boat I would suggest would be as follows 1/ sailbords (men/women)mistral one design 2/single hander (laser)men and women maybe radial/)*piss the finn off there too heavy and there bugger all of them around ,there for gorilla's ,heck if these guys really want to be in the olympic's they could try out for the wrestling team,, 3/high performance skiff men 49er ,women 29er?or simalar 4/piss the 470 off (if it's good enought to get rid of the Big T well thats a good enough reason to drop the 470 5/piss the star and yngling off all together (out dated and shit who sails these things any way.... 6/replace the keelboats with a one design 3 person sport type boat like a laser sb3 ,men and women can sail them in different divisions of coarse 7/ lastly keep the T and introduce a similar type of high performance 2 person cat for the women ,like a f16 only more one design or even a hobie 16 with a kite//?(hell theres more h16 sailing in the world the all the other olympic classes put together,,,,,except laser)) so do I get the job!!!! [This message has been edited by Village Idiot (edited 12 November 2007).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lachy pudney Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 I think a foiler in there would be a great advertisement for our sports innovation as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leapin Leroy Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Mal, Thanks for that, i'll talk with the Nacra people and find out if we have a delegate. If not, i'll take the appropriate action then get in touch with David and join him at some of these meetings.... Probably what needs to happen is YQ to approach YA to approach Sail US?? Afterall they were the ones who did NOT have one multi-hull VOTE. Regards, Leigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mal gray Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Thats more like it Leroy, but alas the horse has bolted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgehugger Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Horses can be caught. Scream loud and long enough and things will change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Originally posted by Bridgehugger: Horses can be caught. Scream loud and long enough and things will change. I'd like to think so but somehow I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xmatelot Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Hi, As I understood, this decision has to be ratified by the IOC. pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bundy Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Please see a statement from Yachting Australia released today on Multihulls and the Olympic Games http://www.yachting.org.au/?page=33462&format= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berny Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 "Some consider that the change, which was taken on a motion from the floor, was taken with undue haste. It'd be interesting to know who put the motion? Something about it smells bad to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl J Barrett Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 Carolijn Brouwer found time from her busy Tornado training schedule in Sydney to write to SailJuice with her views on what happened two weeks ago in Estoril. You could read the frustration between the lines of what Laser Radial sailor Laura Baldwin wrote a few days ago. Here, Carolijn is much more explicit with her feelings. By the way, a quick reminder that Carolijn finished runner-up in the Tornado World Championships this year, showing the men the way round the track in the manliest of weather conditions. So this is a girl who knows what she’s talking about. “Dear Andy I was gutted after the ISAF meeting in Estoril. I felt empty, confused and especially useless. I am a member of the Events Committee but at this moment I truly don’t really know what I’m doing there and whether it has any meaning. Of course I’m very disappointed ISAF kicked out the Multihull and is taking a huge step backwards in sailing by not including the High Performance dinghy for Women. They are too scared to take a possible risk and move forward. But most of all, I am disappointed about the Events selection procedure. The members of the Events Committee have been chosen by their MNAs because they are the so called experts in the issues/areas that involve Events, including Olympic Games and Olympic Event Selection. The normal procedure is that the voting on respective issues that involve Events is done on our Committee and we then put them forward as a recommendation to Council. Council usually accepts our recommendation. This time however they just chucked it out the window and started all over again. So, what are we actually doing there as an Events Committee if our expertise is not being used anyway? This is really disappointing and to be honest I don’t understand what ISAF is doing. It’s frustrating being part of it, and having the feeling that you are completely useless. It’s not about the sailors, it’s about the blazers. So many people have told me already, don’t try and understand, it’s a waste of time. And I still keep thinking I can make a difference in there. The past week I have been on the verge of resigning from the Committee. But that would be giving up. We need more active sailors on the committees, not less. I have a very straightforward, simple and symmetric opinion of how easily we can have only ten events for sailing in the Olympics and still cover the whole range that our beautiful sport has to offer: • Singlehanded Men/Women • Doublehanded Men/Women (High Performance) • Multihull Men/ Women • Windsurfer Men/Women • Keelboat Men/Women (matchracing) It doesn’t have to be difficult, it can be easy. And regarding the Women’s situation. This might sound a little contradictory with what I just wrote above, but it’s just a matter of time. I am more in favour of 6:4 than 5:5. If you look at any Olympic sport out there at the moment there are more men than women. I wonder whether we will find enough women to fill all the Olympic classes if we go 50:50. And I’m afraid if we do, this might bring the women’s level in sailing down, and that is the last thing we want. So an easy solution to this would be consider the Open events. Not all the events have to be open but I definetely think some events CAN and should be open. There are many people that think the Tornado is not suitable as an Open Event discipline. I think I’m the living proof that that is not entirely true. But I can live with that because in my eyes there are more disciplines out there that are equally and maybe more suitable for men and women. We are talking Multihull here, not Tornado. So the F18 or any other catamaran class could be more suitable for men and women. Or take for example the 470. The boys now (especially due to the conditions in Qingdao) but normally as well, the boys have to be very light and skinny to suit a 470. A mixed combination could be the perfect solution for this problem. And also here it has been proven in the past that it is possible (1984 Olympics with Cathy Foster and Pete Newlands). And with this approach, you can solve the whole situation by keeping the wide diversity, still cover all the ranges in sport, keep all the sailors happy and most important of all not put our sport in danger of losing its Olympic status! Which is exactly what is happening now by removing the Multihull and not introducing the High Performance. Regards, Carolijn” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xmatelot Posted November 30, 2007 Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 who is going to the meeting next friday? pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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