Increasing Interest

[slammer]

The promotion and development of the sport of multihull racing.

The development of a a multhull training program.

1. For junior development- lots of choice ranging from buying boats to a simple list of skills to be taught to new crew...

2. For NEW multihull sailors- new club members drawn to cat sailing as an alternative to monos. This can be a DVD, online forum, newsletter suggesting stuff for the club to go through with new members- going downwind etc.

3. Skills development program for EXPERIENCED sailors. Regatta starts etc- (we were hoping to have some ex-champs come to Forster for a weekend in 2008 and conduct a few talks etc about regatta sailing, starts strategy as well as and also knowing the rules. )

PROMOTION OF EVENTS- local media.

Newspapers- again pics, and a good leadup story.

TV- get some raw mini DVD footage and start sending it in to the local PRIME etc.

Set a target of reports in to sailing mags. That Archipelago Raid article in Aussailing was great. Now more is required.

Talk to ABC local radio, local community FM. They love something to talk about.

EXPLETIVE if Muriel from Nambucca gets on ABC radio to talk about the craft stalls this weekend surely CAT sailing can get a mention.

Coordinated regattas- lets not shoot ourself in the foot and run too many regattas.

Support current events:

ACTION ACTION FOLKS- let's do more than talk. I have been informed and I think was announced at the November presentation that next year will be the last regattas for South West Rocks. 2 years ago we sailed NSW Taipan states there, what will happen next? This is why I ask about sharing resources.

Surely this is one test for any council or association. To:

- coordinate regatta resources, support a club (whichever club that may be)

- maintain a Waterways race area

- ensure that the event is adequately advertised amongst the sailing community.

- advise local media of the event.

If you're going to go to sponsors, you better have something to offer them- more than a blank canvas.

[This message has been edited by slammer (edited 07 December 2007).]

[slammer]

View the survey results HERE...

http://www.catsailor.org/scott/Cat%20Sailing%20Survey.pdf

http://www.catsailor.org/scott/Q6%20Should%20Clubs%20Share%20resources.pdf

http://www.catsailor.org/scott/Q7%20Working%20with%20Neighbouring%20Clubs.pdf

http://www.catsailor.org/scott/Q8%20Teaching%20training%20Cat.pdf

http://www.catsailor.org/scott/Q9%20How%20many%20cats.pdf

http://www.catsailor.org/scott/General%20Comments.pdf

[xmatelot]

Hi Grant,

Your proposals sound good,but there are many many pitfalls.

I have seen boats that don't belong to any particular individual or club,and have seen the results of this "not my boat" attitude .DISASTER.

What happens when you try to fit 40 juniors into 10 boats, DISSAPPOINTMENT.

The logistics of transporting boats from point A , to point B, who is RESPONSIBLE.

pete

[This message has been edited by xmatelot (edited 07 December 2007).]

[xmatelot]

Hi,

I've just remembered,

"the curse of the 21st century"

INSURANCE

pete

[xmatelot]

Hi Berny,

just read your thoughts ,via Slammers survey.

Great writing, everybody should read it,

pete

[This message has been edited by xmatelot (edited 07 December 2007).]

[berny]

Originally posted by xmatelot:

Hi Berny,

just read your thoughts ,via Slammers survey.

Great writing, everybody should read it,

pete

[This message has been edited by xmatelot (edited 07 December 2007).]

Thanks Pete, there's a lot of years of involvement in sailing building boats and organising stuff backing my comments. They are a bit rough but I did have to put it together rather quickly. I'd post them here except that they don't translate well to html. I don't have a PDF writer either to re-write it in that format and attach it as a file or post it somewhere else. Not very computer savvy at all really

Anyway, I gave some of the 'interested parties' a copy so maybe something will come of that. I'll do a report of the meeting and post it today.

Berny

P.S. Anyone wanting a copy, send me an email to; bernyl[at]optusnet.com.au

or see it here;

http://www.catsailor.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=127084&page=0&vc=1&PHPSESSID=#Post127084

[This message has been edited by berny (edited 08 December 2007).]

[berny]

OK,

For a first attempt it went well.

To begin, a temporary committee of three conducted/chaired the meeting and until I get a copy of the minutes, names and finer details will have to wait although both Darren Bundock [bundy] and John Goldsmith were at the table. Most of the 30 odd attendees were sailors from clubs, some involved at management level. Phil Jones and the Head of Training [don't know his name] represented YA.

There was a lot of discussion about a lot of issues although there were two main and differing agendas. They did overlap to an extent but the cross enthusiasm for each was more than a little unbalanced as I saw it.

On the one hand we had a lot of cat sailors, club managers etc., who's main focus and enthusiasm was for developing cat sailing/racing to a point where it becomes more popular, and more fun for us all with bigger fleets and better organised clubs and regattas, and to a lesser extent, making it less likely to be ignored by YNSW, YA, ISAF and the IOC, with the ISAF/IOC component a secondary issue. On the other hand there were those [YA reps and Olympic hopefulls] who's main focus was/is on having catamarans re-instated as an Olympic discipline. On this issue, the driver for YA and ISAF is that if cat sailing is not reinstated, sailing in general [monohulls] is in danger of being eliminated from The Games due to it not fully complying with IOC criteria, i.e., not well supported by a majority of Nations, not spectator or TV friendly, and not very exciting [Finn/Star/Laser etc.]

Interestingly, a poll taken during the meeting asking which boat out of the F18, H16 [no spi], A class, and Tornado would be preferred by those present as the Olympic cat revealed a preference for the F18. Sadly, the F14 or F16 [my favourite] were not listed as an option.

Much of the discussion from the sailor's and club manager's group was about ways to improve numbers at the clubs and from that it was pretty much unanimous that clubs need to focus on youth training. Darren Bundock was very much behind this idea and keen to get involved, even to the point of jumping on a Maricat once a month and racing at selected clubs, wooo hoooo. There were plenty of different ideas on how to achieve this but the discussion was deferred for a later time when the council is fully formed and legitimate, and in a position to get some serious work done.

The most disappointing [but not unexpected] revelation was that, while YA needs us, [cat sailors] to be progressive and supportive of their endeavours to have the Tornado, or some other exciting catamaran reinstated and retained with IOC status, they really don't seem to want to have very much, if anything to do with helping us make it happen. I'm not even sure what it is they would like us to do other than maybe provide our vocal support for that endeavour. That part isn't clear, not to me anyway, but what was clear is; YA think CRA [potentially a National Body] should conduct all it's operations under the control of the state bodies, YNSW, YVIC, YSA. etc. Now as I see it, those bodies have no teeth whatsoever when it comes to negotiating with YA. These state representative bodies have no members as near as I can tell. With individual sailors now paying their fees directly to YA, they are in essence members of YA not YNSW etc. So, I'm very confused about the fact that YA want our help, and are prepared to help in an advisory capacity, but beyond that, they suggest any significant input/help we seek, in particular funding, must come from the State bodies.

Now given that we as cat sailors, until now have never been shown any interest from YA, and even less interest from YNSW et al, my question is; what's in it for us, the ordinary week end jocks? I can see how having a cat in the Olympics could be helpful in attracting young sailors who have an ambition to race for gold, and I don't in any way want to minimise the importance of that more than it is, but really, even though Darren and Glen are very nice blokes and I'm in absolute awe of their abilities as sailors and their Olympic successes, and I think we should continue to support their efforts in a reasonable manner, will it make any difference to the blokes at CRSC or Mannering Park, or Kurnell or Koonawarra Bay, or Great Lakes Sailing Club etc., or the Taipan Assn., if sailing is dropped altogether from the Olympics???? I don't think it'll matter diddly, but I could be wrong.

Na, we need to be shown more respect, we need to be treated with more dignity than to be told, "we need your help desperately" but, "sorry guys, there's no help available here, not from YA" [and this came from the head of YA training/coaching], and probably, if history is any judge, 'not from your State bodies either' he should have added.

So, what to do?

Personally I think we should get behind this new CRA venture 100%. We are going to need people to put their hand up for committee positions so there's a commitment to be made there. I'm not sure how that will happen amongst cat sailors. We're not too good at that but I think we really do need to build cat racing into a more credible and viable enterprise so that we are more professional and have some influence and some decent dollars to spend on ourselves etc., etc.,

Like it or not, the language in the world of viability and credibility is $$$$$. Then if YA, ISAF, IOC want a piece of our action, [or if coincidentally they benefit from our success] well and good, and if they don't, then maybe Darren and Glen will need to jump on a Star. ;^) .................Just Joking Bundy!

Bottom line is, I think we really need to do this for us!

Berny.

[This message has been edited by berny (edited 11 December 2007).]

[slammer]

Has someone told the YA that the tip of the iceberg is there- for all to see, because 90% of the iceberg is beneath it keeping it afloat.

It sounds as though the YA is only worried about the tip- the Olympics. And to them that's the important part.

The development of Cat sailing is best left to MEMBERS of the Australian Multihull Council (AMC). That being Multihull sailors.

A national development strategy starting with club development- management, organisational structures, goals, facilities. A youth development program, new sailors program.

Strategies to promote sailing.

There is a lot to be done and the sooner we combine our passion for sailing, irrespective of the make of boat or the lenght of our...

hulls,

the better we will all be with coordinated schedules, actively promoted events. National sponsors for Cat sailing.

Sounds good to me.

[TornadoSport260]

Berny,

Your post worries me but does not surprise me. Unfortunately YA have never been multi friendly and it would seem that nothing has changed. But I feel the cause will get more backing if you approach the state organisations.

I've worked for a NSO (National Sporting Organisation) and the NSO develops the resources that the states then teach. So the states are the ones with the "man/women power" to get hands on. Why don't the CRA with YA's training rep create a training package within the Sport and Rec training packages that YA already have developed (I can probably get a trained person to help write the package). Then the CRA could present to the SSO's (State sporting org.) the package and seek help to implement it. Lets not forget that training is a big money maker for an NSO, if done correctly it can be worth almost 50% on top of their membership income. So it would be in YA's best interest to 'play-ball'.

Whilst this is by no means a "quick" fix to the problem (likely 1-1.5yrs to develop a full package with the approval of the Voc Ed ppl.) it is a political way to approach it, that could produce the desired effect.

Also such programs that are done using accredited training packages with NSO/SSO support can be quite attractive sponsorship properties. Have a chat to some flatwater paddlers and see if they remember the Qadbury Schweepes school program. Basically they coughed up the dollars and the NSO/SSO ran the program. Look at the Milo Cricket program. The NRL/ARL have a dedicated team of young footy players that get 40k/yr to run school clinics all around the state. Need I say more. One sponsor that springs to mind as a possible fit, Sanitarium.

Core values: all stem around health. (They are owned by the Seventh Day Adventist Church, so its a very sterile image. Not a blemish)

Values in a Multihull program: Active Children, Health/Fitness, Fun (Once again a sterile image)

Anyway just a few thoughts. Just be aware that YA would be seemingly weary of losing a chuck of members to a new and rival NSO. Hence they will fence sit rather than go either way.

[TornadoSport260]

Slammer,

Unfortunaly you are correct, YA is basically only concerned about the Olympics. the Australian Sports Commission give government grants to NSO's pretty much based on Olympic Performance.

Medals=Media Coverage=More Positive Exposure for the Government=More Votes at the next election=Happy Prime Minister=More Money for ASC=More Money for NSO's=More Medals (Its a vicious little circle)

So of that money that an NSO gets from the ASC what happens to it?

Olympic Programs get the majority of the money, for the sole reason that when the ASC gives the grant money, the NSO signs a funding agreement that states what the grants intended use is and as we know, that is for creating more Olympic Medals.

Now an NSO can use some of the grant money to fund grass roots development and claim that it is ensuring the long term medal prospects for the sport. But in the grand scheme of things its not a large chunk. Dig through some of the YA Annual reports from previous years and you'll see the level of ASC funding they get and where it goes.

Thats the way life works in sport at an amateur professional level when the majority of its income comes from a government grants. YA took a hit in the hip pocket after Athens, as did alot of sports, so they need medals and the Tornado is a high medal prospect discipline.

Now no doubt everyone on here can add 2 and 2 to make 4. So if the CRA went to YA with a method to fund a program and written training resources they'd be left without a leg to stand on and say no. Because they'd be nuts to turn down extra funding and resources, that would lead to extra participation and medal prospects (long term).

[slammer]

I must admit that I did spend some time last night going throught the Yachting NSW site.

Oooh, just writing the term YACHTING seems to rub against the grain.

I pondered the cause of developing a national representative council etc and looked at the past NSW Y reports etc. I considered the notion of duplication of service and goals etc and wondered if we were simply embarking on a process that duplicates what currently exists for sailors. Training structure, funding programs etc, and potentially leaving us out of the loop when applying for Govt funds etc.

For me the final outcome is still that we must have a national coordinating body which represents catamaran sailing.

I agree with Tornadosport260's comment that we need a National body we are able to come to the table with other groups with some serious clout. A council or association which represetns all catamaran sailors would possibly represent more sailors than any other group (except possibly Lasers.

So a National Multi body with a list of registered members, a National calendar, goals, state coordinators/ contacts, training and development program. Then if appropriate we could use the structure and resources of the relevant state YA's.

I'm visualising a bit of Viking invasion about it. The only way the Vikings could feed themselves was to take over the villages and pillage the resources.

So having legitimised cat sailing as a true sailing sport, which is reflected in a national body of all cat sailors. Then we can argue the cause for catamaran youth training programs etc.

First step though is get this Assocaiation, council... whatever up and running.

Do we have a final name for the group.

I've heard Australian Multihull Council, now the Catamaran Racing Association (CRA). What's the story?

[This message has been edited by slammer (edited 11 December 2007).]

[berny]

The official naming wasn't voted on at the meeting because the group hasn't officially formed yet, not until it has a committee. That's the difficult bit as I see it, who's going to put their hand up to serve on the board? Slammer? TS260?

You blokes seem to have a good grasp on how it works. You in?

OK, How does YNSW fit into this. I'm not a member of YNSW and I don't know anyone who is. We are all members of YA. So is this a tactic to give YA absolute control? Effectively the state Assns., YNSW, YVIC, et al have no voice at YA because they have no members, they are just a committee representing themselves. Strange setup but very convenient for YA I'd think.

[TornadoSport260]

Berny,

The way membership works in this federated membership structure is (so i think):

You become a member of a club, which is a member of YNSW and YNSW is a member of YA.

So you are a member of YA but also a member of YNSW and your local Club.

Some systems work that the SSO take a cut of each membership in their state, others that the SSO pays a flat fee to the NSO and others that the NSO collects the funds and then distributes.

I'd have to read YA's constitution to find out the exact structure and they are way too boring.

[Darryl J Barrett]

Why not form an association and call it the “IMA” – the “International Multihull Association”. Let the name stand for where we want it to be? I think you would be surprised at just how many members (worldwide) it would attract. Surely there are enough “qualified” people associated with multihulls in Australia to operate such an organization? The film “field of dreams” was appropriate in this instance with the quote “build it and they will come” I have several drafts of appropriate constitutions, and regulations that can be easily adapted to such an Association, then all it would need is for it to be registered with the federal and state departments of consumer affairs to make it legal, after that it IS the official, independent body responsible for ALL multihulls. Simple “at law” really!

[Darryl J Barrett]

If such an organization were to be formed THEN the membership could decide whether they wanted to become “affiliated” with the state YA’s and though that affiliation, with the national body and by default with the ISAF, OR they could remain independent of those bodies and if/when strong enough (with membership numbers) then negotiate directly with the IOC (as the TRUE representatives of the entire multihull family – as opposed to just a minority party within the ISAF) for Olympic status (and the IOC funding that goes with it).

[Loose Change]

on a lighter note, instead of calling it "IMA" you could call it "ACRA", "Australian Catamaran Racing Association" which would tie in with NACRA which is "North American Catamaran Racing Association" (not that such a thing exists, except as a brand name) and then Pete (Xmatelot) could refer us all to "the boys at BCC"

[xmatelot]

Hey,

I LIKE THAT

pete

[BarryK1200LT]

You can create any number of National committees with all kinds of fancy names. But increasing interest in cat sailing begins at club level within the local communities that surround each sailing club.

Having a great organising committee won't really change much, unless the committee has the ability to motivate each and every cat sailing club in the nation to become proactive in their own community in attracting new members.

The challenge then (as with all clubs) is there are always a few overworked people who do pretty much everything that has to be done, and then there are the rest who appreciate the work done by the others, but are otherwise content to turn up, do their thing, and go home again.

The other factor to look at is how many cat clubs feel they have enough members now, and don't have or feel the need to recruit new blood?

To me, if you want to attract new people to the sport you don't need a new committee, you need better marketing. And by better, I mean "some" kind of marketing, because I haven't seen any sort of marketing out there aimed at the average bloke and his family, other than on the places and websites we sailors already go looking. And thats kind of like preaching to the converted.

When I got involved in sailing a few years ago, my introducton was at Twin Waters resort where they had a fleet of 8 Hobie Waves. The interesting part about it was that the cats there get a flogg'in all day long, and there is normally a bit of a line up to get on the cats.

That tells me the interest is out there if the local clubs really want to go after it.

I'd imagine a small catamaran rigged up on display inside the local shopping centre on a Saturday morning would attract lots of lookers. If there could also be a few people handing out flyers advertising the free "Come and try Cat sailing Day" at the local sailing club, I think you would get plenty of people coming out for a look and a sail.

Some you might convert to sailors, some you won't. But the real work will be done at club level, and not at any national committee level.

Just my 2 bobs worth.

Cheers

Barry

[slammer]

Goodness me.

I have the sense that there is a limit to the productiveness of such a long topic. As we skim over the replies I feel that we are now repeating suggestions etc.

Barry- I agree with the think global act local concept (ref reply posted 07 December 2007 03:43 PM).

I used the Al Qaeda phrase where individual clubs act with common goals and direction- based on a list of suggested strategies to promote sailing locally, club member roles in the club as well as communication proformas and suggestions. Your right to we need to act local, where's the newspaper results. ABC on air interviews, local TV promo- this costs nothing. But you've got to feed it to them, they're not going to chase us up.

Where are the emailed pics of the NSW Taipan titles? A member from our club came third. National association acting locally, organised feed of results/ pic's , to local club media contacts. Beyond the Associations feed.

A national committee should establish as set of Aims and Objectives-

Has anyone been to http://www.manta.org.au/index.php

As Bundy pointed out -We should have a National Association. With a national association so we can represent multihull sailors with a strong voice (call it collective bargaining).

I'm going to look a complete dill walking into YA/ NSW asking for support for sailing as the secretary of Great Lakes Sailing Club. Bundy's going to look like a self interested individual if he walks into the YA/ ISAF/ Olympic events comittee.

I would expect that a national association represents the cat sailors and that is where we are at.

An effective association and committee is responsive to the needs of the group it represents- sailors, clubs, events.

Who came first, the chicken or the egg?

Well this is it,this is where it all begins-

this is the chicken lying in bed smoking a cigarette....

The chicken came first.

Start.

[This message has been edited by slammer (edited 12 December 2007).]

[slammer]

Of the 70 replies to the survey said that a national association was:

45.7% essential

35.7% Very important total 81.4%

5% neither here nor there

0% not very important

1.4% not at all or 1 person in 70.

[berny]

Guys, I think I'm very much over all this Olympic stuff. The more I look into it the more disillusioned I get with all the politics, all of the small print and backroom deals yadayada, it all looks like so much crap to me and as a cat sailor I really just want to sail and race a bit and have some fun and I'm able to do that without getting involved in all that highly elitist corporate bs. And I'm getting the feeling that a lot cat sailors you feel the same way so why are we stressing.

That's NOT cat sailing, and virtually has nothing to do with it IMO.

I've been looking into the YA and YNSW and it all looks to complicated for us to get any real benefit from any of it. Nobody from YA or YNSW really gives a flying fig about cats so Bolloks to it all I say.

Berny.

[TornadoSport260]

Berny,

Fortunately the Olympics is what get government funding which helps to drive the grass roots sport. Membership dollars are a fraction of the government input in small sports. So it kind of has to go hand in hand.

[tgh]

Nice to see the issue bubbling along .. although the players are a bit thin.. guess it is the usual deal not enough people care enough.

In this discussion group that is probably read by a few cat sailors..we have berni and slammer stoking the fire, and a few new faces offering good input..

Government funding is not tied to the Olympics .. or even high performance.

Lot's of support and cash grants go to the grass roots.

What is expected is structure , organisation and commitment.. and so far it is light on the ground.

[slammer]

For me this topic has become too long.

I propose we creat a new topic in this forum. National Multihull Association.

I would like the forum to be an input into what club members see as the main issues in catamaran sailing***** that should be adressed by an association/ council.

On funding- govt's don't give funds so people can have fun- playing sport. The department of Sport and Rec allocate funds to clubs which have made applications for capital works programs and offer support for other programs such as country coaches.

Youth development funds are provided with the ideal of Olympic medals and international success.

We are going to need a national association now that multi's are off the Olympics to lobby and argue for some funds.

We need to coordinate resources. Has anyone written to the TV stations and complained about the lack of coverage of the extreme 40's in Sydney.

Was someone there from the National Multihull association to push highlight the validity of multihull sailing as a sport, of course not, no coordinating body. People came to look.

You're right Berny, there's probably just 5 or so punters looking at the forum. But I'd much rather sail against 12 boats on the weekend than 7, and I don't want to see great regattas such as South West Rocks disappear- which is going to happen. Those fond memories will soon turn into regrets if there is no action.

I'm away for 5 weeks with a little bit of work (no I'm not Santa) and a lot of Holidays. I think they have the Net in Tassie so I'll stay tuned. I've been told they have bubblers of beer at the Cascade factory.

[This message has been edited by slammer (edited 12 December 2007).]

[Loose Change]

Originally posted by berny:

Guys, I think I'm very much over all this Olympic stuff. The more I look into it the more disillusioned I get with all the politics, all of the small print and backroom deals yadayada, it all looks like so much crap to me and as a cat sailor I really just want to sail and race a bit and have some fun and I'm able to do that without getting involved in all that highly elitist corporate bs. And I'm getting the feeling that a lot cat sailors you feel the same way so why are we stressing.

That's NOT cat sailing, and virtually has nothing to do with it IMO.

I've been looking into the YA and YNSW and it all looks to complicated for us to get any real benefit from any of it. Nobody from YA or YNSW really gives a flying fig about cats so Bolloks to it all I say.

Berny.

Berny.

Berny, I'm with you on this one. the Olympics do absolutely nothing for me, I don't just mean the sailing, I mean any of it. The games are not about sport any more, they are about elitism at the highest level and who can spend the most money to attract them to their country. In other words, the Olympics have become nothing more than a huge drain on the public purse, even the successful ones have lost millions of dollars. It's nothing more than political grandstanding.

I also agree about YA and YNSW being too complicated for little people like us to access with any real degree of clout.

I went and spoke to the Mayor of where I live he listened politely, nodded knowingly and referred me to his tourist promotion officer. (so much for friendship) My next train ofthought it to approach the local service clubs, eg. Apex, Rotary and maybe others of a like structure.

I just want to sail and I want kids to grow up knowing that there is more to life than Play Stations and X boxes.