Dr Peter Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Sailed last Sunday in gentle conditions. Spent a lot of time after a tack popping the main sail to get the battens bent the right way. It was also difficult to make the mast rotate and remain in position. The sail is brand new and the mast is raked. What's not right? Any advice welcome. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korwich Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Hi Dr Pete Ah maybe loosen off the battens a smidge if it is really becoming a problem, with a good new sail you often have to hand pop it through in light conditions. If I am using my sad beach towel of a club sail, I really miss that sharp crack of the sail as you go through the eye of the wind, the old sail is more of a blaaar than a crack. As for mast rotation maybe move your top mainsheet block back further up the boom. If you think that that is annoying, try sailing Super Sloop in heavy conditions and having the mast derotate every time you ease the main to prevent a capsize then having to come in off the wire to kick the mast back to the right side, then having to ease the main to prevent a capsize as you are now not on the wire, and the mast derotates, and so it goes on, till you get the jeremy smits and say bugger it and pull the pin. Really if you are close hauled the mast should rotate fairly easily to the right side, may be a different story when you are off the wind though. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Peter Posted October 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Thanks, Phil. I'll will move the mainsheet attachment on the boom (does this make the vang unnecessary?) and I'll persist with the battens and see if they are still uncooperative in a better breeze. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pointed Reply Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Pete the Pirate was once quoted as saying the only use of a boom vang on a Maricat was to put your foot on when going down wind in light breeze !! If you take the block hanger too far back the traveller will not "travel" very well.......a compromise is required. Battens in only tight enough so that they just POP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knobblyoldjimbo Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Aah, I miss my Eastwind sail, smooth as a baby's bottom and cracks like a rifle. First set the vang so that it only works downwind. The modernists don't appreciate that with a vang running dead downwind while it does provide somewhere for your foot to go (while standing up on the front beam to maximise windage) when a slight gust hits, the vang stops the boom from raising (and thus absorbing the pressure) and gives you a slight increase in forward movement. With the battens, give the downhaul a goodly pull and they'll come right. Because my gooseneck fitting got stuck every time I separated the two, using a short strop to hold the boom down just below the sail feeding slot (I used a couple of pieces of dowell to hold it up and a strop (3mm spectra) to hold it down). This meant that the downhaul actually worked properly allowing the sail to go up as well as down. The adjusting blocks go from the tack to the top of the boom. Depending on the cut of the Easwind though don't be too tempted to pull the downhaul too much - I got scared when the wind came up and kept it tight which meant that the leech fell away (as it is designed to) but I did it too much and too early. Finally discovered that, then sold the boat! Did Dave (Eastwind) tell you to set the batten tension then leave it alone? Tighten them till the creases come out, tie them off and forget about them. His view is that you don't want the stitching to start to tighten and stuff the sail up. In the couple of seasons I had the sail I rarely adjusted the battens. So I'd modify Rodneys comment, battens tight enough to take the creases out, then use the downhaul to pop them. And for the mainsheet blocks they need to cause the boom to provide a small amount of forward force to keep the mast rotated. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knobblyoldjimbo Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Not sure if I got the message across, NEVER undo the battens, roll up the sail and store it with them under tension. Interestingly the old orange sail I'll be competing for last place with in the future, Dave reckoned that he'd built it too, when he was an apprentice! When the downhaul is tensioned the upper leach actually kicks up instead of falling away. My Careel 18 also has one of Daves sails, smooth as and noisy too even after four seasons.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pointed Reply Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Bob Simpson of Wild Tiger fame........multiple State and National Super Sloop Champion also advocates never undoing battens.........but others like Tony Zahra from White Wave, arguably the fastest Maricat around (and a Sloop !!) always loosens and retightens his battens. So who knows !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knobblyoldjimbo Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Another thing to check too DrP is that the mast heel is swivelling properly in the hole - ie the conical doodad is resting in its place and the rest of the mast step isn't getting in the way of the rotation. I had to file down (with the handy angle grinder) quite a bit to allow this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korwich Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Marko (redhead sails) instructed me to set the battens and leave them alone just roll the sail up. His reason was when you are sailing you can have maybe a couple of ton of force on the sail, (taking into consideration, 8 to 1 main, angles of leverage etc, tension with a 8 to 1 down haul, out haul etc) if a couple of ton of force does'nt induce stretch, a couple of KG of force from a batten in a rolled up sail will do nothing. (yes we know that eventually the sail will stretch with use but you get Marko's point) Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Peter Posted October 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 Dear All, A lot of words of wisdom since I last posted. I keep the vang unless otherwise indicated. The downhaul feels different too - harsher - less willing to be adjusted. I'll explore that. I did not do the grinding thing although I had heard of it. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humungus2 Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 Hey Phil, it looks like your daughter is getting in on the act and she knows as much about sailing as you. Yeh I reckon you could fit it onto a postage stamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korwich Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 Hey Phil' date=' it looks like your daughter is getting in on the act and she knows as much about sailing as you. Yeh I reckon you could fit it onto a postage stamp.[/quote'] If you have a open those things in your head mick called eyes and look Mick those posts have a link down the bottom to a nail and varnish website that is as far as I can work out is in the states. Now I know that Jen is an enterprising 10 year old but I doubt that she is working for a company from the USA. Hey Mick define apparant wind Mr Postage Stamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humungus2 Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 The sails are set to the apparent wind, which is always closer than the true wind. The apparent wind moves further forward the faster the cat sails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darcy1945 Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 Cat or sloop rig? Dr pete, if sloop or S/sloop rigged your jib fairlead position is probably the culprit. move the fairlead further aft to open the slot and stop backwinding the main. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korwich Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 As far as I know Dr Pete is sailing cat rigged Darcy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Peter Posted October 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Went sailing in a fresh breeze last Sunday and the battens still wouldn't pop. I came in and loosened the battens slightly. It fixed the problem. I was happy with how the mainsheet angle worked out - just a slight angle helped the boom stay in position but it was important not to oversheet too early. The vang did very little in the conditions experienced - fresh breeze with occasional bullets of strong wind swinging about 20 degrees from the standard. Very full-on conditions for the second time out this season and my movement around the boat wasn't yet instinctive. Just after rounding the top mark for the sausage I got hit with a bullet and pitchpoled. Off I went - popped up swimming fast and caught the boat. Just as I reached it it popped up back on its hulls with sail and rudders in the hove-to position. Clambered aboard and took a few breaths and finished the race. When I got in noticed three battens had speared through my nice 'new' sail. Anyway I have patched the sail up and - bolted each batten to its plastic pocket on the luff. They should not fall out now although the situation was unusual. The fix was suggested by another cat sailor at my club. It is still hard to get any real pressure into the battens when you tie them in so I have not bothered too much. Peter Anyway - loosen the battens but not too far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darcy1945 Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Disagree, Dr Pete, sounds like your battens were much to loose, with the sail hoisted, the boat on its side and the mainsheet just on, and no cuningham tension adjust tension on the battens so that when you force them to pop they will pop back under their own weight, cuningham tension increases batten tension and is something else to get right, increase tension with wind strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Peter Posted November 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 About over-rotation of the mast. I ground off the 'stopper' on the bottom of the mast and found I had to re-attach the mainsheet on the boom on the old up-and-straight-down position my old multi-coloured sail used to use rather than the angled in position recommended. At the moment I am having no problem with over-rotation and no problem popping the whole deal into position after a tack. Happy with the outcome. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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