Prince Planet Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 Mini Americ-Oz Cup. Can anyone think of a company that is known for making things smaller? More simple etc - if we could find a company like that - maybe they'd consider a sponsorship of the event? Or better yet, put up some decent prize-money for a 14ft circuit? Just thinking out loud here... any other thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrSnapid Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 I wish there was a cat equivalent to the open Bic - those things look great and will always compete with cats for the kids affections. Hobie bravo goes close but just doesnt seem racey enough (although i have never sailed one...) What do you call decent money for a prize? $500 or $5000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interested Posted June 26, 2013 Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 Prizemoney does not entice competitors.Just look at the highly funded 16 foot Skiffs. The more cash you throw at a 16 ft skiff regatta the less competitors turn up until in the end it resembles a matchrace that only a handful of the very top boats are willing to compete. Kids dont want cash,,they want a 4 foot high trophy so they can post pics on Facebook. If the 14ft Cats are serious about holding a annual regatta then you need a trophy for the Kids..A trophy for the Ladies crews and then a Open Trophy...If Cat sailors want to sail for cash prizes then sell your cat and buy a 16 or 18ft skiff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interested Posted June 26, 2013 Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 The only other prizes that I would offer is maybe a few $50 Fuel vouchers and these should be drawn out of a hat on presentation..That way even if crews have a shocker of a regatta they would still hang around for the presentation in hope of at least picking up the fuel bill for the sad trip home..How many regattas have a 100% turnout to the prezzo? We all mentioned the time and cost of travel and this fuel voucher draw always attracts people to stay in other sports that I have been associated with,,,only time I have heard any booing was when the outright winner also collects a fuel voucher out of the hat draw.lol.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interested Posted June 26, 2013 Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 This Fuel Voucher draw is something the organizers of the Kembla Klassic at PKSC should contemplate with many ACT crews coming down..Gives them the opportunity to pick up $50 of fuel for trip home and also entices them to stay for presentation rather than pack up and head home as soon as they can. Idea works well in the lawn bowls scene with huge turnouts to all presentations.Nobody wants to miss out on the free fuel if it only means hanging around another hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartz Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 Hi all, new here, just bought an old Caper Cat so you may see me fumbling around on Lake Mac on the weekend. Likely just on the shore this weekend learning how to rig it (and find out if it's all there!)I'm guessing the Caper won't be a competitive race cat but once I'm familiar with it I may head up to Speers and check the club out.I'd like to get my little girl into sailing, she's just turned 5 so probably too young? She's a water baby and looking forward to seeing her grin once I get this cat going.What has kept me away from getting into this earlier? Laziness? Other priorities? yes, but also I guess I find the whole club scene daunting.Why? Unfamiliarity, cost, and having no idea where to start. When I have passed club races everything seems so fast paced and little time for a chinwag to entice a new recruit.So for me something more relaxed and social even separate to the race days would be less threatening. Maybe social days where more experienced sailors take newbies and less experienced sailors out for a spin. COuld even have races like this where the less experienced skipper with the experienced as crew with a novel points system to reward the experienced sailor for training progress.Anyway I'm just shootin the breeze, maybe the ideas of a newbie might help.See you on the water, I will likely be IN it!CheersSteven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knobblyoldjimbo Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 Try going to Speers or Manno a couple of hours early, you'll probably find someone who will give you the time of day and some helpful assistance. Manno is good because it has a sandy beach all along, Speers can be a bit hard if you hit the shoreline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korwich Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Hi Bartz Most clubs around Lake Maq clubs start races at around 1.00pm, that said it is not a good idea to turn up at 12.00 and expect to get a chin wag. lob in at say 9.00, better still, let some of the guys know that you will be turning up and will need some help, want to ask questions etc. If you are looking at turning up to manno or speers you can let people know though here. I personally dont know much about a Caper, but I'm sure there are others that do, I bet Darcy knows more about any cat then most of us have forgotten about our own boat. It cost $10.00 for a casual race fee at most clubs, (that gets you an afternoons racing) it would pay you to have some sort of insurance even if you are just going for a blast around the lake, (hey I just ran over that swimmer that I did'nt see),,,,,, at least 3rd party.If you are not yet sure about racing, one of the best ways to get the gist of it is to offer to come out on the rescue/start boat, you can see how it all runs, how everyone starts, who does what wrong, and who does everything right.Most of all, if you come down, let guys know that you are after advice etc, don't be shy, we are all really keen to help the novice. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartz Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 THanks for the reply guys, I reckon I'd need to turn up at 6am to be organised at the moment.If this weather holds out I will spend saturday morning in a quiet spot learning how to rig this cat and what repairs it may need. I've already ear market the mast foot for replacement and the dolphin striker bolt is snapped so won't be taking it in any wind until I get that sorted.It will be interesting to see how the old Caper goes, I had only ever read about them and attracted to the big storage to make this sailing thing more attractive to the family and maybe do some sail campouts. If I get it rigged this weekend I will be out around Eleebana if anyone is up for a laugh at my expense!When I'm up and running I will venture down and check out the clubs.INSURANCE? I didn't even think of it! These days need to insure for everything! How much for 3rd party property and do all the usual agencies offer this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interested Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Approx $50 per year will get you min 3rd party ins..Most insurers have this basic option.If you have not rigged the Caper as yet then the best idea would be down the local sailing club and let some experienced Cat sailors help you out.That way you will know if anything is missing or incorrectly rigged.Most 14ft Cats can be rigged in under 30 mins so it would be no bother to ask your local club crews for some help.Public Liability Insurance is a must.The last thing you want while learning is to power up with a gust and run straight into a brand new boat on the lake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korwich Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Bartz like Interested said, most insurers will offer a basic 3rd party, though may be worth your while to try a marine based insurer 1st, such as Club Marine as an example, (I'm in no way touting Club Marine they're just an example, they did afterall give me the big A, but thats another story) that way you dont normally get asked silly questions, like "is the hull and engine in current survey", or "well you'll need to have your boat inspected by a licenced marine surveyer, where abouts is it moored"? "Its not moored its sitting in my driveway on a trailer"! As the ad says let your fingers do the walking. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korwich Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Bartz if you are looking at replacing bits, give Darcy a call (he sails at Manno), 02 4359 1729, if anyone knows where to get spare parts cheap, he will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interested Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 The best insurance I have found was GIO.Only 10 days from reporting boat accident to payment.The quickest and best insurer is normally the one you have already.Many insurance companies will bundle your car,house and boat insurance into 1 easy package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartz Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Just an update:Took Caper out on saturday, oh what fun! Why didn't I do this years ago is my biggest question! Family loved it too, was a perfect day for it!Geez my few skills were rusty but was a great success!One question: it has 3 stays - 2 side, one forward. Now the off wind side stay (that'd be "lee" right?) seems quite loose when the wind ins in the sails. Is this normal? I had them as tight as I could get them with my 50kg partner leaning on the mast during set up so no idea how to make tighter if needed?It is very buoyant in the rear, felt like a nosedive wouldn't be hard to do!The "pins" for the rudder were just bolts - there has to be something better???? Went to Bias marine but they had nothing!Apart from that I think I just need to replace a broken dolphin striker and some old halyard ropes and I'll be set.Oh and lowering the mast needs some practice as I dropped it on the top float and have broken it in half along were it seems to be fibreglassed together, any ideas on what to glue it back together with? Back to this thread, I did get close to a race of very race-like cats with at least twice the sail area. I really do hope that wont be the cats I'd be racing against as I was about half pace with them! I also learned that my closest entry point to the lake, Eleebana, is not the nicest place to start from. There was the patchy wind due to the headland but much, much worse was the stink boat hooligans! Had one come up on me, correct me if I'm wrong but I have right of way? Well they came as close as possible even though I was bearing away so the D-head on the wakeboard could spray us with his wake. Please advise on right of way as next time I will ensure I have insurance and I will take him out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyquoll Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Over the past few weeks I've sailed at Fitzroy Falls (southern highlands NSW), Portarlington (Bellarine Peninsula VIC), Waranga Basin (central VIC), and Wallagoot Lake, Coila Lake & Batemans Bay (South coast NSW). At all of these places I've had a terrific time, taken people out for joy rides, found people interested in getting into sailing and seen cheap old cats laying around.I heard that Try Sailing Day at the Southern Highlands Yacht Club attracted over 70 people, and the keen ones asked the obvious questions: "What do I do next? How do I learn to sail? Where can I get a boat? What type of boat should I get?"The various clubs I've visited all had unique ways of promoting sailing, providing training and providing an induction path.While the solution seems obvious, implementing it is difficult:- attract people to sailing; host a Try Sailing / Discover Sailing Day and get people onto boats. This requires a bit of organsing and a lot of volunteers- offer an induction pathway: sailing lessons, a sailing school or private coaching, and have club boats available for newcomers to use. The YA accredited sailing instructor certificate is expensive (cost me over $1000 including travel and accom), private coaching raises public liability/insurance issues, club boats require maintenance, storage & insurance.- sailors at all levels require support; buddies to sail with, encouragement, opportunities to sail & race together. It seems like a pyramid; there is a massive population who do not sail, then there is a large base of recreational sailors, a lesser number who enjoy racing at clubs, even fewer who race in regattas, and very few who race National & International titles, and the sailing pharaohs who race in Olympics, Americas Cup or other elite competitions. While YA, Saiing Magazine and others seem entirely focussed on the elite level competitors, we would do well to recognise and support sailing at all levels of the pyramid. Speaking of which, Bartz, welcome to cat sailing! Some answers:Yes, it's normal for the leeward stay to hang loose. When the boat is rigged up, onshore with sails eased, it's OK to be able to grab the forestay and pull it back and forth with about 30cm of play. Loose is fine, so long as it's not so loose that the mast will jump out of the socket.Most boats have "transom pintles"; special fittings that provide a vertical pin for the rudder to slide down onto. The rudder is prevented from coming off with a retaining clip. A pin of at least 7mm diameter is recommended for cats. Parts you can buy: http://binksmarine.com.au/store/yacht-fittings/rudder-fittings/rudder-gudgeons-pintlesYou absolutely MUST have an intact dolphin striker. That is a highly loaded, structural part of the boat.Not sure what you mean by "top float", but if was previously fibreglassed, then repeat that with polyester resin and fibreglass cloth. I recommend using syringes from the chemist to accurately mix resin - hardener ratios.It takes practice and coaching to achieve racing performance. The three main things to improve speed are:1/ sheet in hard enough to get all of the sail flowing. This probably requires pulling the mainsheet MUCH harder, pretty much as hard as you can. If having the sail in this tight means you are overpowered, then drop the traveller out from the centreline. A rough rule is to let the traveller out 1cm for each knot of wind strength.2/ move your weight fore and aft; on monohulls a sailor constantly moves in and out across the boat to keep in balanced, on cats we constantly move fore and aft to keep the hull trimmed. Try to keep the leeward nose in the water; going upwind in very light winds you might need to get out onto the foredeck. In moderate winds you'd be up against the sidestays. In really strong winds and chop, you might be above the centreboards. When reaching you need to move back to prevent cartwheeling, perhaps behind the stays in light winds, near the rear beam in moderate winds, and sitting on the transom leaning backwards in strong winds.3/ keep the hull flying; move inboard / hike / trapeze as required to balance the boat, with the goal of sailing only on the leeward hull. The boat will go faster and point higher if you keep the windward hull just above the water.Yes, the rule is that power gives way to sail. However, it is never worth colliding with another boat. Just get out there and have fun. I highly recommend the Toronto Amateur Sailing Club; great bunch of guys who are keen for new members. Please get in touch with them and sail with like-minded people: http://www.tasc.org.au/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartz Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Thanks for the info Tony, I had such fun on my first sail, I used to hire these things as a kid and always loved sailing (dad built a big one but spent more time building than sailing and is now passed).I lamented to my partner how silly it is for me to have waited till my 40s to finally get one. I spent most of my adulthood in Sydney and through both distractions and feeling daunted about sailing clubs I never made it.I'm hoping my little girl is inspired to keep going, see loved the weekend sail. This will keep me going.Before I bought the caper, I called around to see if I could hire one. Only one place on the central coast had cats and they are sick so now there is no one.It'd be good if clubs hired boats but like everything these days liability insurance would prohibit it I guess?Do clubs race both sat and sun? Maybe if only one day then the other could be for social sailing where people can jump ships and try out different boats and meet different people. Light competition is always fun too, so some way of light hearted competition might get people hooked and the more competitive move to the real race days?Just throwing ideas around!Oh I wouldn't waste dinging my cat on the idiots out there, just peeved that I gave them a wide berth but they went out of their way to come as close as possible and with a 5yo on board I didn't appreciate the danger at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korwich Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 yeh Elebana sucks for launching cats in fact most sail launching from there sucks, if on a Saturday you could have gone around to Speers Point Sailing Club, they sail on a Saturday, would'nt have needed to race, just that the gate is open then, and there would have been guys there to give you advice if you needed it. There is shade under the trees near the club and I've been there when guys have just launched using the clubs ramps but not raced. Even just going into the water at Warners Bay near the motel is OK, I've often seen cats launching there for a fun cruise, hardest thing is getting the trailer over the kerb at the car park. Toronto club is a mainly monohull sailing club, OK, but they are not going to have much advice on cats and how to rig them??? Rathmines is also a good place to launch from, bit more of a drive I know, (launch near the old cat clubhouse) or I even launched from Marmong Point when I first started sailing cats. With tensioning up stays leave the stays loose till you get the mainsail up and the mainsheet on, then run the traveller out to the end of the track and use the mainsheet to tension up that side stay, repeat for the other side.Where abouts do you live Bartz, I live at Seahampton (up on Mount Sugarloaf) let me know where and I'll can whizz down to your place or we can arrange to meet somewhere and I'll run you through what I know, (that should only take up 5 minutes, as I know basically JS). CheersPhil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartz Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Thanks for the great info TonyWell heading out tomorrow morning, trying out Valentine...can you see I'm avoiding the clubs until I get a but more reversing trailer down a ramp experience? Maybe I will sail over to speers point from there and say hello to anyone around.Ah Sugarloaf, I head out there on my dirt bike when it's going (a whole other kettle of fish!!!)I'm waiting on calypso sails to fabricate a striker so hope it's not too windy! Might try and drill out the broken thead and get a bolt in there tomorrow before i sail if I can! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knobblyoldjimbo Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 You should never bother to reverse the trailer anywhere. Drive up to the water, take the trailer off and push it to the nearest grassy area close to the water. If the whole thing is a bit heavy get a jockey wheel to help. Go down to Manno for a pleasant Saturday arvo (get there about 12:30) and you'll see what they do. No need to take your cat, just go and watch. Usually Darcy (tall bloke, loud voice, white goatee), Warren (big bloke, Windrush on a modified box trailer) and occasionally Marko (small bloke (has to move around in the shower to get wet!), Paper Tiger) are there and are all scions of the 14ft cat group. Ask and watch, good experience. Then bring your cat down earlier the next weekend and have a bash. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korwich Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Never reversed a trailer down a ramp in my life, thats what beach wheels are for. Take the boat off the trailer rig it up on the grass, use the beach wheels under one end and some rubber mat under the other if there is no grass. Then use the beach wheels to launch the boat, chuck the beach wheels up onto the bank, go sailing. When you return use the beach wheels to get the boat out of the water, derig, put the boat on the trailer, have beer, go home. No reversing of trailers down ramps there. If you go to manno where there is grass almost all the way to the waters edge, you dont even need the beach wheels.Come on Bartz we're trying to make it easy for you here, at least come down to one of the clubs and let us show you how easy it can be. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eragon Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 This may be the future of 14 foot cat racing http://www.goodalldesign.com.au/Catamaran/index.php/our-boats/goodall-430/430-specification For those that can let go of the past.......Have the funds..........And want to increase the fun factor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Planet Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 That looks awfully like a Nacra 430 to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knobblyoldjimbo Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 There's another one too, maybe a hobie but same old same old, when you want to point uphill and don't want boards you do a bustle. Best example of this would have to be the UK Dart, I think 16ft. Looked good, unlike these lumpy 14s. Goodalls are even pretty heavy, more than the umpty six year old Mari. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knobblyoldjimbo Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 And therefore it certainly isn't letting go of the past, its going right back to it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Planet Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 I agree - the Nacra concept is OK - but why copy it? It's still too heavy, and the boat is a compromise at best. Having said that, the skeg principle is a good one for off-the beach cats... just such a pity about the front beam placed so far forward - and it seems the Goodall design has anti-nosediving chines up front? No need for those if the balance of the boat is designed correctly from the start...IMHO if the Windy and Maricat had their front beams further aft - and a little wider too - think Prindle 15 width – they would certainly be easier to handle off-wind in a strong breeze - but that's easy to say in hindsight - as these are both 70's/80's designed boats...Anyway, I believe that the yardstick is still very close (if not the same) to the 'classic' 14's like the Windrush and Maricat - so what's the point of this kind of 'development'...?For cool pix - thought you might all like this effort...The MacFarlanes really got it right way back in the 70's - and the W14 still holds its own... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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