ymick Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 i have a black witchold 18 footer with 30 foot mast and jib[think hobie tiger]tipped it over the other week[bit too exciting for me and got boo boo on my knee]i was soloi have hobie type righting rope system under tramp and float on top of sealed mastwind was maybe 15-20 knotsi have now tried in the bay multiple times to right and the only way i can right boat is with out any sails and then only justturning boat into wind was tough too but swinnging off high hull was tough and could get mast maybe just out of wateri am old and after one or two attempts am too knackered to repeattwo up boat upany ideas apart from smaller boat, which i have and can uprighthappynewyear mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QB2 Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 think about getting or making a righting bag you can fill to give you more leverege. Tie it off to the righting rope or upper shroud wire and lean out with the bag held out on your back. Standing on the bow should get the cat into the wind and at that wind strength the main should have helped with lift. Thats the theory . There is also making a righting pole, have a look at catsailor.com for some of the ones the yanks have where they put a pole into the lower centreboard slot and walk out on the pole which has ropes to the front and rear beams to hold it steady . After uprighting the pole tucks away back under the tramp.. If you are ,like me , feeling your age, might be time to go to an A class, or 14 footer lighter weight.class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interested Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 No good if you cant enjoy it or it has potential to become a danger.Sounds like your day is over if you end up in the drink,sail the smaller cat when solo and save yourself a perm back injury.I had same righting probs on the 16ft skiff and comes a time you just say "stuff it". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madboutcats Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 G'day Mick one up is a fair ask righting your boat, I was able to solo right my Stingray using a "Righting Pole" which provided leverage, if you google that it should come up, the sails should help you right the boat as long as you let them off once the wind gets under them. If you throw your righting rope over the top of your hulls you get a longer lever think of your hulls as your lever you are adding length and also pulling from wider out. The other trick is a water bag that you fill with water connected via a pulley to your boat, then pull on the end of the rope as you are righting it this adds your weight and the water in the bag, it also acts as a drogue once the boat is up you need another line on that to pull it out backwards once righted. The others posted while I was writing this I would add that the righting pole I had was based on Rick Whites system which was attached at the centre of the beam under the mast and retracted with bungy so it self stored and just hung under the tramp when not used. The righting bag idea on your back would work fine if you can handle the weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 Had a similar issue a couple of weeks back as well with an old mosquito I've put back on the water..... moderate wind and throw in a "willy-willy" instantly spat me into the drink backwards..... Once in the water, old leaking rivets saw the mast fill with water rapidly plus a shallow lake that sucked the mainsail down onto the murky muddy bottom and all in only ~8' of water, this saw me with a DNF and struggling physically in the 2nd race afterwards. Once she was back upright I had a bigger fight of actually getting back on-board, the efforts to right her had completely exhausted me and it was 99% will-power that got me back up her and got us back on the beach again, an hour later and the water was still dribbling from unknown places as we launched for race 2. Yeah I'll confess it was a distinct lack of checking the actual mast that cost me big that has since been rectified, but on the day & even with the assistance of the safety boat she was still extreamly difficult to bring back upright, it took atleast a dozen odd attempts to get back upright, constantly shifting winds only added to the frustration I went through..... This WONT be happening again What I want tho isn't really available........ most of the systems we see are really only for a boat on its side and don't provide the assistance all that well when we go upside-down completely the grey matter is still rolling on that one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knobblyoldjimbo Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 One of the PT sailers (Steve) showed me a neat thing, he'd tied a loop in his righting line so once the boat is up, he puts his foot into the loop (it's at just the right place) then he can just step up onto the tramp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ymick Posted January 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 all above interestingold and give up big cat fair ideawater bag on back no, after three trys hanging out on righting rope i almost drown without extra weight thank you very muchWill stand on bows next practice to see iff boat turns into windwill have to look into poletried righting rope over hull, no dice i fell out cause was badly organisedboat handful for one over 10 nots, fell out because of unexpected jibe and inability to release jib when releasing traveller[multi tasking when panicking not a strong suit]can still get back onto boat but fair point after strenuous righting endeavours and shock of being catapulted out of boat, its a challengeadd to activity trap hook and gut protrudence [ive heard some have] :o so loop in righting rope for foot good ideafloat on mast seems simple affective method of stopping turtle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darcy1945 Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 The easiest way to get back onto your cat, is via the bow, just push down on the bow and slide you overweight, old, exhausted body on, without having to lift yourself out of the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTMD Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 No need to put the waterbag on your back. Get a heavy duty garbage bag and stuff it in your lifejacket. If you capsize hook the righting line on your trap harness throw the bag in the water, let if partially fill then pull with both hands over your head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ymick Posted January 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 mmmmmmmmmmmmm ctmd, idea but may dislocate my skinny arms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madboutcats Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 Give it a go it does work, your other option with waterbag is what I tried to describe earlier you put the water bag in the water it has a line that goes though a pulley so you just pull on the rope through the pulley and the weight of the water bag holds one end down while you pull your weight down, just experiment with different sizes of bags. Whatever size bag you use it must have a retrieval from the closed end to empty the bag and pull it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rnie Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 I actually bought one on ebay, think it was made by hobiemills in US, works ok, but leaks a bit, so you have to be quick. also made a bit of a pully system where i hook it on the righting rope, and pull it up, then lean into it with my shoulder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gim Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 I capsized the Mossie one-up a while back and also couldn't right it. The mast had hit the bottom and the wind was pushing the mast into the mud and I couldn't get it to come up at all. An old hand suggested to me afterwards that I should have sat on the stern to get the boat to come around into the wind, so Jeff's suggestion of standing on the bow is opposite of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 I've set up Twice Shy (1182) with a basic righting pole that I sort of threw together as a test base...... figuring I'd fine tune and make it better if it "worked" An alloy pipe runs the length of the centre beam and is hinged at the dolphin striker, 2 stainless shroud wire are secured at 1400mm from the hinge on the length of pipe, the other end of the wires are fixed via a pair of shackles to a plate I added at the front beam/hull connection area. The pole is held up against the centre beam by a short bit (80mm) of electrical conduit that's been slit and shaped to become a snap in lock for the pipe. simple right ???sure is, works a treat.... tests on land---> I can lift the mast and sail clear of the ground with ease, even doing it one handed it is an easy as lift.& its just as good on the water too, even the 60kg crew can bring her back upright by himself and can do it really quickly, we even did a timed run with the old righting rope way against the pole.... the pole had the boat upright before the rope was even pulled out ready to use Nice touch...... its fully removable ..... 2 shackles & one small bolt and its in the sailbox leaving the plastic snap clip and the hinge fixed to the boat..... I doubt that their combined weight will be all that critical Installation is just as easy and quick..... so I can asses the days racing and fit it before the boat even rolls out of the shed, it doesn't even interfere with any of the trailer mounts. So ....... the problem then becomes all of our worst nightmares...... the totally upside down capsize The pole becomes useless as its leverage is lost when the mast goes deep..... So I added a rope (doubled over) to the inside of the pipe, its a bit over a meter in length and is held in there by a shock cord (doubled over) which is fixed at the hinged end of the pipe, the rope at the end of the pipe is held there by a plastic knob and a small bolt that passes through between the doubled over rope....... this bolt is actually the stop form pulling the rope out entirely. The theory being (and no I haven't tried it as yet) that when totally capsized the pole is flicked out into position and the rope is pulled out of the pipe this gives me a metre of length from the centreline of the boat from where my body weight can be 'hung' .....as to if its enough or not we wont know until it goes over that far.......&yeah I have a back-up plan if this fails, a rope made into a large circle, and stowed on the tramp, simply throw it over the deployed pole and let it slip down to where the stainless stays are attatched to the pole...... guess work here but it should work as good if not better than a bloody great length of righting rope Pics...... would post them if someone would fix the site so pictures can be addedthe 'quote' button could use some fixing too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ymick Posted February 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 sounds good piratepic would be goodi fell over again this weekendsafety boat lifted mast and up she camebut otherwise ??????could not get downwind without nosediving?wind was 25kn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gim Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Hi Kingy, Could you post some pics on the Mossie site please, and link it here? Like Mick I would love to see your setup, as I think I will try something similar. Thanks,Greg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 I'm resetting a few things on the boat over the next couple of nights so I'll takes some fresh photos of the upgraded setup I've done (minor changes) I'll link the pics for you too...... any reason we cant get pics to work here ???& the quote button ??? :( & some broken smiles..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madboutcats Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Have you been clicking more reply options then going through the attach files section at the bottom of the page? Are your pic files smaller than 20mb? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 I don't 'upload files' to forums, nasty past experience over photo ownership means I only upload to a photo hosting site such as photobucket /imageshack etc, from there I like to link the photo to the forum.....The feature to link doesn't work on this forum, it freezes the instant you past the link into the dropdown window.Copy and paste also doesn't work with linked photos, it keeps loosing the clipboard and so nothing gets pasted. no great deal..... I'll add the stuff to the other site and link it here some how.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 ok..... found a way to cheat it more ass than class I might add ..... View of the front beam, you don't really notice much of a change do you ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 rear beam...... that little black knob is about all that's visible and "not ordinarily there" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 back to the front beam and a bit of a closer look...... now can you see something that shouldn't be there NB: (and an edit )there's a good reason as to way the shackle is the way it is, as the pole swings out the shackle HAS TO BE ABLE to rotate in the mounting plate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 so we better tip her over so all can be revealed...... my centre beam is black so the alloy tube obviously stands out against all the black as does the shrouds from the front beam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 better have a closer look from underneath. The front beam shroud connection point,originally I just had the bolt doing the work but once the load comes onto the plate it simply rotated around the bolt, so a stainless pop-rivet was added to secure the plate, problem fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 the central mount. its actually on the centre spar but now I'm happy with it all it will probably go onto the actual dolphin striker and be a lot smaller in the material size, I used3mm stainless in this case and its secured with 4 pop-rivets to the centre spar. Once the pole is flicked out into position it actually pulls the shrouds quite tight so the D-shackle had to be able to turn in the plate hence its hole size. unfortunately its not a clear photo but ~25mm from the hinge bolt you can just make out the ocky cord where its notted ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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