Jackm Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 Doing a bit of market research and was keen to hear from people who have owned the things. Am curious which one is better performance wise, speed, handling what have you of the 4.5 vs the 430? Notable differences? Pros and Cons either way? Any input is appreciated. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genefewings Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 Ive got a 4.5. I came from a hobbie 18 and find the 4.5 a ton more fun. I go out on my own all the time on the 4.5 but also - i can put the wife and 2 kids on there no probs without burying hulls. Great floatation. I havnt had a 430 but by the look of them they are prob more designed for single handing. Depends what your goal is Roscoe at bris cats would be able to run down the exact specification differences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spike Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 The 4.5 is a great little boat, really fast for a 14 foot boat, fun to sail, versatile and challenging if you want to race it (you can actually point and turn it -unlike other non centreboard boats). Can be sailed one or two up or even loaded up for a family cruise. Perfect all round boat. Very cheap to own - low maintenance with great second hand market (very hard to find good ones). Have seen a few of the original boats (I think almost 20 years old) and they take a fair beating, no soft spots or other structural issues you find in boats of similar age. Very low initial depreciation if you decide to buy a new one. Only sailed a 430 once and cannot tell you a great deal about them other than what I have seen on the race course- which is slower upwind and tight reaching (without the kite) than a 4.5 but faster downwind and broad reaching (with the kite). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackm Posted November 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 Thanks for the feedback guys, does a kite on the 4.5 put it on pace with a 430 off the breeze or have you not had much to do with 4.5 spin kits? I'm currently on a 16 Square and rigging single handed is no easy task and I feel a jib would make low breeze tacking way easier. Also was out Sunday with my 40kg Golden Retriever, he doesn't handle the sweeper sail too well haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Planet Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 On 07/11/2016 at 8:50 AM, spike said: The 4.5 is a great little boat, really fast for a 14 foot boat, fun to sail, versatile and challenging if you want to race it (you can actually point and turn it -unlike other non centreboard boats). Can be sailed one or two up or even loaded up for a family cruise. Perfect all round boat. It's closer to a 15ft than a 14ft cat - it's 120kgs - about 20kgs heavier than a foam sandwich Windrush 14. That 20 odd kgs can make a BIG difference to 1 person manipulating the boat on and off the trailer and dragging it around on beach wheels - so pleez take that into account... You can now put a spinnaker on a Windrush 14 - which (as far as I know) makes it faster round the course than a 430 - which is a heavier boat. The 'plus' for the 430 is better weight-carrying ability. And you can point & turn a non-centreboard cat (like the Windrush and Maricat) quite easily if you know how to sail them correctly... so a little bit of mis-information there - and/or a lack of experience & knowledge in evidence.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 Raced competitively maricats and Nacra 4.5. The difference between the maricat and 4.5 is chalk and cheese. The 4.5 has Smoking quick tacks, cuts the water and waves so beautifully and carries weight much better than maricat. Don't get me wrong loved my maricat when racing at a club that mainly had Maris. But once you sail a Nacra its hard to go back. Currently Racing a Nacra 5.0 and son has a Nacra 350. The 4.5 class is growing rapidly and can be raced competitively 1 or 2 up. The maricat struggled to keep up with the super sloops when raced 2 up. You can get a spinnaker kit for the 4.5 but is not class legal for Nacra regattas. The 4.5 is a very versatile boat that if you want to sail alone you can or if you have a crew you can and still race competitively. Only sailed on a 430 once, so can't comment but do agree with spike the 4.5 looks faster on all points until the 430 uses the kite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackm Posted November 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 Interesting, doesnt seem like too many people on here have 430s. For reference I raced on a maricat for a few years about 8 years back and currently own a 16 square Im thinking of getting rid of for a 4.5 or 430. Maricats were fun and all but I never felt like I *needed* a trapeze, nor did I have that almost out of control feeling. And the 16square is something like 150-175kg plus the mast is massive to put up. Just cant get the kind of speed out of a beat up mari as you can out of a nacra so definitely not looking to go there or to the windrush. Was hoping to hear the newer sails/rudder/hull tech in the 430 made it comparable to the 4.5 just because 430s seem to come up for sale more often. Anyone out there with a 430 to give some input? Or anyone interested in selling/trading me for a 430 or 4.5? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Planet Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 Hmmm - u gotta compare apples with apples right? Take a quick look at the current VYC Yardsticks - Windrush 14 Super Sloop and Nacra 4.5 Super Sloop - both at 87. The yardsticks are calculated using well-sailed boats in the hands of experienced, fast sailors. However, as clearly stated, the 4.5 is definitely closer in size and length to a 15ft boat. Its a newer design too. So, it should be faster… Of course an 'old' or clapped-out Maricat 4.3 or heavy Windrush 14 cannot hope to compete with a newer Nacra 4.5 - but who ever said that they might? I was simply commenting on the casual statement that an asymmetric design (centreboard-less) 14 cannot 'point' or tack quickly - which is frankly dead wrong. A good W14 or Maricat 4.3 sailor can do both. Consistently. Less experienced/novices can't - it's that simple. (BTW, it would be interesting to hear what the Paper Tiger sailors would think of that kinda statement...) And I beg to differ about the other false statement that you never 'need' a trapeze on a 14. I'm 100kgs or more fully kitted out. On my foam W14, I can get out on trapeze in anything above 15 knots. (if I chose to of course) and if you were of average weight - that trapeze-able wind strength would decrease accordingly.(the new mylar square-top mainsail is very powerful - and in combo with the fully battened mylar jib supercharges the Windrush 14 - in the hands of a knowledgeable sailor...) But, of course, it comes down to your weight in the end... and if you wanna take others out occasionally - and what you feel comfortable sailing. I feel that a 'new' W14 Super Sloop - a foam sandwich boat sailed well - is every bit the match for a Nacra 4.5 - and the latest Yardstick proves it. The advantage of the Nacra designs is buoyancy - yes they carry more weight. That means you can take a heavier adult out for a spin easier than you can on a Windy or Mari - but realistically, who does it? The 14s all bog down with excessive weight - even a Nacra 430 - 2 larger adults tend to feel cramped and get in each others way - and if you want to do it regularly, I'd be looking at a 16 or 17ft boat - coz that's what they're designed to do... The Windrush 14 & Maricat 4.3 (and even the Nacra 430) are designed around a solo sailor predominantly - and/or father/son, 2 teenagers etc... but the N430 certainly can handle 2 larger adults more comfortably - no doubt. On every other count however it's no better - and being heavier, is harder to drag around... However, comparing the 'designed' crew weight of a Nacra 450 Super Sloop and Windrush 14 Super Sloop - which is in effect the 'racing' skipper's weight - there is only a difference of 2kgs. So, go figure - can you still objectively support your negative statements? The advantage of a 'new' foam sandwich W14 is it's more easily rigged - definitely only 1 man to easily raise and lower the mast - once you know the correct technique - and definitely easier to manipulate on and off the trailer, and being lighter - on the beach. This is the consensus/observation of many experienced 14ft cat sailors at mixed fleet cat regattas - where the best exponents of the high-profile 14ft cat classes gather... It seems that many haven't seen or witnessed the 'new' foam sandwich W14 in the hands of a competent sailor.... or for that matter a foam Maricat 4.3, and tend to judge both the Maricat 4.3 and W14 on the older versions - which is an unfair comparison. By all means compare the Nacra 430 to a new Windy or Mari - and you'll find that the newer-designed Nacra is in fact no faster - and in many cases not as quick as the 'older' 70's designs - now made in foam sandwich construction... which is an important distinction to make. Put a kite on well-sailed foam W14 - and the Nacra 430 probably wouldn't keep up... (most likely due to the dead-weight of the boat) - but it ain't what I think, or my bias. It's reflected in the yardsticks. It's such a pity that Windrush themselves don't highlight the very real advantages of the latest W14 - but that's life in da big pond... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimB Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 Jack, There are plenty of happy 430 owners out there, including me. GIve me a call on 0419723800 to discuss if you like. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Posted November 12, 2016 Report Share Posted November 12, 2016 The Nacra sailors are a great bunch as you probably already know with your 16sq. we are expecting 70+ boats at the Nationals in December. Looks like you sail solo. So if you want kite sailing go the 430 or the 4.5 if looking for non spinnaker class racing. Both have good fleets, however the 4.5 fleet is growing rapidly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickopen Posted November 13, 2016 Report Share Posted November 13, 2016 On 11/12/2016 at 3:13 PM, Mako said: if you want kite sailing go the 430 or the 4.5 if looking for non spinnaker class racing. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackm Posted November 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2016 Thanks for all the useful input guys and I may give you a call too Jim. I'm in Canberra and don't know of too many other Nacras on the lake here so definitely useful to know that they are comparable to other 14s new and old and the odd badly sailed 16 as thats likely my competition. There are a few boats in wollongong but no 4.5s or 430s to my knowledge. While Id like a Spinnaker it is more likely to come down to what's cost effective and becomes available second hand in NSW, sounds like a 4.5 might still be a good option for me but unfortunately Im not in the market for a brand new boat. Ill have to make note not to get a 430 unless it has a Spin for speed and I spose a new spinnaker kit for a 16sq costs about what I paid for my boat which could make it hard to afford one after the fact. Suppose now I just need to find someone selling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genefewings Posted November 13, 2016 Report Share Posted November 13, 2016 You can get spin kits for a 4.5. I spoke to brisbane catamarans about one for mine only coupla months ago FYI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.