T. Beard Posted September 16, 2007 Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 It has been a long time since we have used our boat and Yesterday we went out on Morton Bay in 15k choppy waters. We were 2 up and I was sitting back near the aft beam and my forward hand was aft of the side stay to stop any nose diving. The last time I went out I cut myself to pieces on the fittings as i nose dived so have been a bit shy of sailing this thing for some time. The problem was tacking. We had the jib backed to assist and we had the speed. It must of taken us 10-12 times to get around. Where am I going wrong.Is it always this hard in strong winds? It was starting to get embarrassing infront of all the dinghy sailors. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeDean Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 Tony, Hi, I'm no expert, but this is how I do it anyhow!...; 1) If the water is choppy then the waves can make tacking difficult, especially if you dont enter the tack with sufficient speed. The waves can knock the boat back onto the tack you started from and make it nearly impossible to get through the wind (even with the jib). Hence the advice is you need to enter the tack with some good boat speed, dont sail up closer and closer to the breeze till you're nearly stopped then hope you can tack. Get boat speed (bear off a little if necessary) and in a smooth arc come up to the wind. 2) Time the tack in regards to the waves, so you're not "in irons" just in time so that there is a big fat wave waiting to smack into the bows to push the boat back around (this isnt always easy esp if its short sharp chop and not longer waves). 3) Make sure you still have the sail working as you are sailing up closer to the wind, this means that (a) the traveller has to be pulled in to say 10cm from centre as you are approaching the tack and (b) the main is sheeted quite tight and © the downhaul is pulled on so the front of the sail is nice and flat (without lots of depth). 4) As you feel the boat go into irons (hopefully just between two waves!) you need to ease/release the main sheet (usually you do this as you make your way under the boom as the tack occurs). This stops the mainsail from working to keep the boat on the original tack - and hopefully to let the jib start to back and bring the bow of the boat through the wind. 5) Only once the jib has worked its magic to get the bow of the boat through the wind, should you touch the mainsheet. There is plenty of advice that says you should pull the main on slowly so as not to stall the air on the sail at this time, but on my Windrush I have found I need first a short sharp pull on the main sheet to "pop" the sail over (the battens can be holding the sail back to front on the new tack - and it doesnt sail to well in this mode!!) then I ease again, bear away with the rudders, and slowly pull on the main sheet as the boat accelerates on the new tack, and then bring the boat up to its correct heading (ie hard onto the wind). 6) I know you had the concerns with the nose-diving and wanted to have weight back on the boat - but this also doesnt help the boat tack. As far as possible you want to have your weight forward - allowing the hull shape to maintain speed/foward momentum higher into the wind (acting like dinghy centreboards) into the tack (as you go back on the boat this effect is reduced). As well with your weight back there is the effect of the wind acting on the trampoline - acting like a sail - either to tip you back, but also to stop you successfuly tacking. I'm sure there are many others out there better qualified than me to give advice - but the above works for me (mostly)!! Regards and good sailing, Mike Dean Windrush 6310 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T. Beard Posted September 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 Hi Mike Thanks for your comprehensive reply to my problem. The reason I mentioned that we were well back on the boat was that it occured to me after sailing that this might have been a problem as the stern was under water and as you say the tramp acting like a sail, I had no hope of going about. There was a good swell so your point about the waves and timing the tack during a calm point really make sense. Alot of food for thought Thanks very much. Are you from Queensland and do you sail on Morton Bay? Thanks Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeDean Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 Tony, No I'm sailing in Perth at Nedlands Yacht Club on the Swan River here. The river gets very choppy during the weekend due to the quantity of boat traffic - so I have had problems tacking too - when the wind/wave conditions conspire against you. This really poses a problem (at least to me) when I have tried to sail my Windrush "Cat" rigged (ie without jib), say when it is really blowing. The strong winds, no jib and waves really make tacking a challenge. This also reminded me of the usual way that I tack in these conditions (when all else fails) - and that is in reverse. ie as you feel that the boat wont make the tack - and the wind starts to act on the windage of the mainsail etc - the boat starts to reverse (move backwards through the water). If you are quick enough to anticipate this - you can reverse the rudder direction and then make the tack "in reverse gear". Sort of a three point turn. Apologies for boring you if you were already aware of this!! Best regards Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryK1200LT Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 G'day Tony, Mikes advise is spot on about reversing the boat around if you go into irons and can't complete the tack. I sailed my 5.2 Nacra cat rigged for the first time yesterday in reasonably difficult conditions with big waves and a strong breeze. I found that I had no hope of completing a tack without having to back the boat around each time and bring the bows across the wind backwards. By the end of the day I got fairly good at backing the boat around, and was able to complete each tack reasonably quickly. Next time your out on your Windrush practice backing your way out of a tack. Once you've done it a few times you'll get the hang of it. Cheers Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pointed Reply Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 You should be able to tack a sloop in most conditions. A Windy should be similar to a Mari. Point up close to the wind but with good speed. Drive the boat around with the rudders at 45 degrees until you come all the way around. Just as you go head to wind ease the main about 30cm. When the main pops, let off the jib and pull it in on the new tack. It is important not to straighten the rudders too early. If you are pointed well up you will not nosedive. Having the stern buried will made tacking harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T. Beard Posted September 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 Thanks all for your replys, Because of the conditions and lack of experience sailing a cat, and things going wrong on the days we did go out, I guess I was just more in survival mode and not really taking in a great deal. I do remember going backwads while in irons and trying to get the rudders to help with the tacking exercution but that failed. I am now going to practise these tactics in calmer conditions ready for the 15-20k blows. Hey Mike, because Moreton Bay is so shallow in parts and in the right conditions we can get large swells so it can get very dangerous for any type of boating Thanks Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralph Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 Tony, Get yourself a copy of the book Catamaran Racing for the 90's by Rick White, this will teach you heaps including how to do a roll tack Ralph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T. Beard Posted September 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2007 Thanks Ralph, Where did you buy that book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryK1200LT Posted October 1, 2007 Report Share Posted October 1, 2007 Hi Tony, Where abouts on Moreton bay do you sail? I've found the best area to sail in a blow is in Waterloo Bay out from Manly. Regardless of what direction the wind is blowing, with the islands and Wellington Point to offer protection from the prevailing swell and chop, you can generally find a sheltered area to sail where the waves are managable, even on a 30 knot day. I went down to Wellington Point the other week when we had those strong S/E breezes just to have a look at what the conditions were like. The water to the east of the point was a white foaming mess, but the area in waterloo bay to the west of the point was calm, and the windsurfers and kite surfers were having a ball. It would have been a real hoot on a cat. Cheers Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T. Beard Posted October 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2007 Hi Barry, We usually rig up on the sandy bit of beach near the new play ground area at manly an hour before high tide and unrig on the ramp beside Moreton Bay Trailer Boat Club. There is a bit of sand there and it's easy to load the cat on the trailer from the ramp rather than trying to struggle up the mud flats on a decreasing tide. I know this sounds like a bit of a hassle but it works well and there are not too many places in Moreton Bay that offer good launching and retrieving. As we live at Lota this makes it easy to go for a sail on the spur of the moment. On the days that have been blowing a strong onshore we do head over to the protected areas of Wello Point. It's a nice bit of calm before heading back to manly. My son is the one who mainly sails the Windy and his mate is usually racing around with him on a Hobie14 I was promised a sail especially after helping transport and rig but they just sailed of into the horizon never to return. After Ive finished the house renovations I'm going to get my own cat. I was out at BCC and fell in love with the Nacra 4.5. If you would like to join us for a sail around the Bay and pass on a few words of advice we maybe heading out this weekend. Regards Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warbird Posted October 3, 2007 Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 Sail close but don't pinch so as to have some momentum. Push rudder as best you can at top of wave and only 45 degrees. As boat comes head to wind release tension on main. Keep eye on rudders and as soon as boat stops and wants to reverse take rudders across to reverse into new tack. At same time jib has backwinded and been brought through. boat starts to sail on jib, straiten rudders and apply mainsheet. Drive the boat as hard as you can. Bury hulls on purpose. The boat will slam into the water and come to a halt, reverse out and start sailing agian. Make sure as you do this that you legs are hold you down into the deck so you cannot fire forward. Repeat until you feel safe and are good at pushing the boat but letting the power off before it dives. Do not be scared of your boat...that is the most likely way to get hurt....Put some extra gear on and hammer it into submission..you are in charge, not the boat. A few scrapes now will pan out to fast, exciting and onto it sailing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryK1200LT Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 Originally posted by T. Beard: Hi Barry, We usually rig up on the sandy bit of beach near the new play ground area at manly an hour before high tide and unrig on the ramp beside Moreton Bay Trailer Boat Club. There is a bit of sand there and it's easy to load the cat on the trailer from the ramp rather than trying to struggle up the mud flats on a decreasing tide. I know this sounds like a bit of a hassle but it works well and there are not too many places in Moreton Bay that offer good launching and retrieving. As we live at Lota this makes it easy to go for a sail on the spur of the moment. On the days that have been blowing a strong onshore we do head over to the protected areas of Wello Point. It's a nice bit of calm before heading back to manly. My son is the one who mainly sails the Windy and his mate is usually racing around with him on a Hobie14 I was promised a sail especially after helping transport and rig but they just sailed of into the horizon never to return. After Ive finished the house renovations I'm going to get my own cat. I was out at BCC and fell in love with the Nacra 4.5. If you would like to join us for a sail around the Bay and pass on a few words of advice we maybe heading out this weekend. Regards Tony Hi Tony, Sorry its a bit late in replying. Only saw this today. Maybe some other time for that sail eh! Cheers Barry [This message has been edited by BarryK1200LT (edited 10 October 2007).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richo Posted October 12, 2007 Report Share Posted October 12, 2007 Tony, there are a couple of 14ft Maricats now sailing on a Sunday up at Humpybong YC. There is plenty of lawn to rig on and even a bit of a beach (as far as a beach goes in brisbane). It would be great to have a few more 14 footers sailing with us...So if it is not too far out of your way you should come up for a sail sometime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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