Diggles Posted July 18, 2005 Report Share Posted July 18, 2005 I have read with great interest the response to "Feedback please" posted by mgman. I am also 82 kg and a newbie to cats and looking for a cat that I can rig and sail by myself, but also occasionally sail two up. I would view myself as a social racer but also "feel the need for speed". My instincts draw me to the Nacra 5.0, but I am concerned that it may be too hard to raise the mast and sail in above 12 knots single handed. I am wondering why no one mentioned the nacra 4.5 as an alternative to either the 5.0 or 16Sq. Is it not a contender? I have been very much into windsurfing for the past 15 years, now 52 years old. I welcome any input and am open to all suggestions. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmessee Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 I have often commented on what I like, and that is just my opinion. If racing I would go for the 16sq. If cruising with a bit of racing the 5 is a good choice as it is also great 2 up with the jib. The 4.5 is not really raced that much, but it is a sensational boat. It is all personal choice and what you want to get out of sailing. The 5 and the 4.5 are better all round boats, where the 16 is more of a racer. The best bet is go to the local club where they are sailed and try and get a go on them. You will know which one you are more comfortable with pretty quickly. Also, once you know how to get a boat upright using the sail, one man can right just about anything. It is all technique. I can get a Tornado or Nacra 5.8 up by myself in 10 knots of wind easily. The less wind, the harder it is as I use the sail to lift the rig and then I hang off the striker to stop it rolling over again. All good fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggles Posted July 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 Thanks Emmessee, It is good to get frank, straight advice. Your advice has narrowed my choice between the 5.0 and the 4.5. The "purist" and "racer" in me says to go for the 5.0! But, I am concerned that erecting the mast of the 5.0 may be pretty hard by oneself (I will always be trailering to launch site). Other advice I have received indicates that erecting the 5.0 mast is not easy alone. Is this true? I appreciate that righting once fallen over is indeed skill and technique as you say, - something I have learnt from years of sailing "sinker" sailboards - you can only get going by using the wind. I really want to go for the 5.0, but am concerned that 1 up, any thing over 12 knots or so is venturing into "terrortory". Am I right in assuming from your excellent response that you have had no trouble "one up" on the 5.0? If so, is that "cat rigged" and if so, what wind speed would you consider max for "one up" on the 5.0? Does not running the jib affect the handling much? I intend to "do the rounds" of local clubs to see if I can find any one local who sail Nacra as you suggest. Any one in my local area willing? I live in chilly old Melbourne... I guess that what I am trying to avoid is buying a great performing cat (5.0) only to discover that I may have bitten off more than I can chew. On the other hand, I certainly don't want to end up with some other cat wishing for a bit more....(I would imagine this is a very common predicament). Regards, Daryl [This message has been edited by Diggles (edited 20 July 2005).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eroom Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 For what it's worth: "Run with your heart". I would strongly recommend that you test both the 5.0 and 4.5 and purchase whichever suits your sailing needs. If however, you are still undecided, I would suggest that you really couldn't go wrong with the 5.0. My background and experience includes nearly 30 years of owning and "messing" around socially in catamarans of all shapes and sizes with friends and family. These include Hobie, Widrush, Maricat and NACRA. I owned a 5.0 for 4 years and have only recently sold it. It was a simple yet forgiving boat with excellent hull buoyancy (for lots of friends), no boom to catch first time crew unawares, 2 on trapeze for racing with my teenage son and an absolute delight to be sailed 1 up when the conditions were right. The 5.0 is the true budget "all round" boat in the NACRA range. Some others are longer, shorter and faster, but a well sailed 5.0 keeps most cats honest and gives plenty of thrills for your money. I too am only 80kgs and recently celebrated 51 times around the sun on this planet earth. I have rigged the 5.0 single handed (there are many ways to do this that have been detailed in other NACRA threads) but nearly always have willing crew or someone standing nearby who is able to lend a hand. Rigging and derigging has never been an issue, it's purely a matter of learning the right way to do it (preferably without having to learn the hard way yourself!). As for sailing 1 up cat rigged, I have sailed regularly in winds up to 15 knts but 10 - 12 knts is ideal. The best tip for single handed sailing cat rigged, is to have a top quality self furler (eg Harken or similar) as this enables easier handling of sails under all conditions and allows you to depower the rig quickly if required. As for righting the 5.0? 2 up is no worries, 1 up requires technique and practice (see excellent previous comments by Emmessee etc) If righting concerns you, begin your sailing in conditions that suit (say up to 10 knts) and gradually work your way up the range as confidence builds with experience. I would suggest you choose a quiet day and go and practice righting your boat 2 up and 1 up until it no longer holds any doubts. So why did I sell my 5.0 and what's my current addiction? I have recently bought a NACRA Inter 17 with spinnaker and self tacking jib and am having a ball learning to sail all over again with a truly high performance formula style catamaran. It makes an old man VERY happy. I have recently had a crack at sailing 1 up cat rigged with spinnaker (when the conditions are right) and found the 17 to be superb (and very quick!). Maybe this boat is NACRA's best kept secret........a truly all round boat that can sailed 1 up or 2 up with or without spinnaker. It is after all very similar in size etc to that golden oldie of NACRA past, the 5.2. You could do a lot worse that having a good yarn to the NACRA guys at Brisbane Catamaran Centre. They are always helpful and can link you up with other 5.0 or 4.5 ownwers. Enough ravings from me....just do it! Buy the right cat for you and go sailing! LIVE LIFE SLOW, SAIL FAST! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmessee Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 Getting the mast up is not a problem single handed, you just need to be shown how to do it and then it is easy. Also, when the 5m was launched here in Sydney, it was launched as a two handed and single handed boat. Use a bit more rake on the mast and no jib at all. It actually goes faster without the jib one up, and they will beat a Hobie 16 if sailed right. I am actually shocked that there are not more of them out there. I remember heaps used to turn up to the Forster Regatta. Bloody great boats and fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggles Posted July 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 Hi eroom, your response really made me smile! I thank you for your advice - you seem to look at life (and sailing!) the same way I do. Time for me to try and find a local Nacra 5.0 or 4.5 owner who would be willing and able to oblige. It's either that or just bite the bullet! I believe that the Port Melbourne Yacht Club has a Nacra following. Once again, thanks heaps for your friendly (and heartfelt) advice. Regards, Daryl [This message has been edited by Diggles (edited 20 July 2005).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggles Posted July 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 Nice place, Forster. I have considered that a nice place to retire. Once again, thanks Emmessee. You and eroom have got me all fired up! Thanks for the advice and persuading me to stretch my boundary and have a go at the 5.0. Regards, Daryl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggles Posted July 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 I must admit that I am amazed by the excellent advice one can find by methods such as this. This is the first time I have ever used an internet forum, and am quite impressed. Any one else reading this who are considering "putting in their two bobs worth", then please go ahead - I am happy to receive both positive and negative, just so long as it is honest and what you really feel. So far, I am impressed! Regards, Daryl [This message has been edited by Diggles (edited 20 July 2005).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgman Posted July 22, 2005 Report Share Posted July 22, 2005 Diggles , I am still undecided bn the Nacra 5 or 16 sq. Whilst I have done some looking and wnet out for a few hours on a 5 I am afraid that work and weather have got in the way. I would encourage u to trawl all over this site as I have found a wealth of info and great people willing to share. Being a bit of a luddite I am amazed how good the internet is . of course there are plenty of people out there who have never known the world without computers but I am not one of them .. Happy hunting keep us informed ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantom Posted July 22, 2005 Report Share Posted July 22, 2005 Hi Darryl If you are genuine about finding out the ins and outs about nacra craft why not go to the nacra training day at southport on Sunday ... you will meet other nacra sailors who will have their craft there and I do not believe that you will meet a nicer bunch of people. Contact the Brisbane Cat centre ... the builders of Nacra I am sure that they will not lead you astray. I deal with them all the time and I could not be happier with their service .... and I don't even own a Nacra !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggles Posted July 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2005 Hi mgman, and thanks for dropping by! Have you considered the 4.5? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggles Posted July 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2005 Hi fantom, If Melbourne (where I live) was a bit closer I would have been there with bells on! Thanks for the recommendation anyway. I have also chatted with the guys at the Brisbane Catamaran Centre and have found them very helpful and friendly. Mind you, I just may have to get myself up North anyway, as I am having trouble finding anything in Melbourne in the way of Nacra. It seems that in Melbourne, Nacra's are not all that in vogue for some reason, but have what appears to be a good support base in Queensland. Via this forum, I have had some great advice which would lean me towards purchasing a Nacra 5.0. However, I am coming to the conclusion that the summer sea brease and general windstrength in Melbourne is on average higher that what is experienced in the Brisbane area, and also Port Phillip Bay can be somewhat rougher than Brisbane waters. The above two factors might influence me enough to conclude that the Nacra 5.0 may be a bit too much of a handful one up in Melbourne, whereas the Nacra 5.0 may be the "bees knees" one up in the Brisbane area. I would welcome anyones thoughts and input on this. Regards, Daryl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Bradshaw Posted July 25, 2005 Report Share Posted July 25, 2005 Hey Daryl, I too live in Melb and have only just brought a Nacra 5.8 in Feb this year. I know you are looking for a 5.0, but for what it is worth, my short time in this class and the people who sail in it has been fantastic. A lot of support and the class is great. I have found the 5.8 an awesome boat to sail. Maybe when you get yourself set up we should catch up for a sail. I have sailed mono's all my life (Flying Dutchman) and so cat's are fairly new to me, but I am really glad I moved over. (or should I say moved up!!) Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmessee Posted July 25, 2005 Report Share Posted July 25, 2005 All good advice, and I have to agree that if you can get a permanent crew, the 5.8 is an awesome ship. Melbourne will be fine one up on the 5m as I sailed on in Sydney off Balmoral Beach and usually 15 knots plus and choppy and never had a problem with her at all. Just remember to run a little more mast rake and if it gets to overpowered, pull the crap out of the downhaul and all will be good. Remember to let it off when you head downwind though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggles Posted July 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 I have just been told by a mate of mine that I should take a look at a Taipan 4.9 - and I did. And I must admit it looks to be the bees knees! 105kg rigged and V.Fast. Big problem may be that the V.Fast is matched with the V.Expensive! I note that this was one of the recommendations put to mgman by dwl very early in the piece. mgman, did you take a look? Emmessee, eroom, fantom, any comments? I know this is a Nacra forum, but this is all part of my learning experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmessee Posted July 31, 2005 Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 Yeah, they are a sensational boat and you get what you pay for. The Taipan is brilliant. If you want a one man boat and want to go fast, get a brand new German Flyer A-Class and hand out over 30k and there you go. Weighs only 75kg's and is simple to rig and easy to sail and you will blow most other boat off the water in 8 to 15 knots. If you have a budget and want a boat you can drive up the beach and not have to spend much on once you have it, stick to a glass Nacra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgman Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 Diggles , yes i looked at most including the Taipan ,F14 and the A class something but as this is my first time back to the water after 20 years have decided to keep it simple to get started. On the weekend I found and purchased a cheap 14 foot Hobie . This is about the fifth 2nd hand boat I looked at and have to say most were overpriced and in shocking cond. I will keep the Hobie for a season or 2 and then will look to purchase something better from the club i will sail with. I think buying thru the sailing club is the go as whilst the boats are considerably more expensive they are well looked after and u will get support. But remember this is supposed to be fun so my advice is keep it simple , stay within your limits and have a ball .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmessee Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 Very good advice. I however would sink an H14, capsize backwards and forwards and spend all the time in the drink. But if you are a lightweight, they are great fun. Generally you can find a bargain out there somewhere, but you have to make sure that you are not stuck on one particular type of boat. If you want a 14, then be prepared to buy an H14, Maricat, Paper Tiger or something close, or you may wait half a season for the exact boat you want to come up for sale. All is good though as you are getting into a great sport again and going to have a ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eroom Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 What is the right boat to buy? Get 10 cat sailors to answer that and you will probably get 12 different suggestions! We've all asked ourselves that question many times. The answer is to honestly ask yourself, "What do I want from my sailing?" and then choose the boat that best fits YOUR needs and goals. The things to consider include: 1)Budget: Do i have $30,000; $13,000; $3,000; or $300 to spend? 2)Am I a learner or experienced sailor? 3)Do I intend to sail mainly 1up or 2up? 4)Will my sailing be predominantly Social or Racing? 5)What sort of conditions will I mainly sail in? eg. open sea with surf, protected bay or inland lake? 6)Will I be launching and rigging off the beach or leaving the boat rigged in a storage compound? 7)Will I be joining and sailing with a club and if so, what sort of boats do they mainly sail? 8)Am I a practical person who knows how to maintain my boat or will I need club support and assistance for maintaining and tuning my boat? 9)Is having a recognised brand (eg.NACRA)with good resale, spare patrs availability and strong dealer support important to me? 10)Do I want have a boat that can be sailed at a state, national and international level? ...and I'm sure there are other requirements I have not listed that will be important for you to consider. The bottom line is every boat has its place. Assuming that your intended purchase is seaworthy, value for money and meets your sailing needs then it is THE RIGHT BOAT FOR YOU. Your needs may change over time and you should change your boat to meet those needs. Don't let any one else tell you that your boat is bad or theirs is better, it's all about what is right for you. For my current sailing passion and needs, NACRA is the way to go. Check them out, have a sail and compare them with others yourself. Maybe NACRA is also the right boat for you? Only you will know! Just get out there and do it.....any day spent sailing is a very good day indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantom Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 I agree with the above ... but whatever you buy, buy smart... look to the future, one thing that I reckon is that once you start sailing a cat the next weekend cannot come soon enough ... its that addictive. I have a calypso 16 and if I had my time over I would want a nacra /...the people at nacra are great, the service is friendly and the craft is sturdy ... one bloke told me that 80 percent of a boats performance is in the skippers hands ... how true this is, but whatever you buy do yourself a favour and join a club... you won't regret it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hansonfamily4 Posted August 5, 2005 Report Share Posted August 5, 2005 Six months ago I went through the same ordeal - what boat to buy. I too came from a sailboarding background, having spent 10 years skimming along the surface on sinkers. You won't get the same exilerating feeling on cats but it's close. Luckily all the principles are exactly the same but slowed down on the cats. They are much more forgiving and there is more time for decision making when things get out of hand. I bought a Nacra 5.8 because I wanted to take the family out cruising. A 5.8 handles four people easily yet I can still sail it single handed up to about 12 knots of breeze. Above this and the thought of capsize worries me. Getting it back on its feet alone would be near impossible for me at this stage. I find the hardest part of sailing is getting that bloody great mast aloft. I prefer sailing on club days where there are lots of experienced sailors aroung to help, but if I sail during the week I enlist help from passers by - after a few instructions the masts up. Getting the boat off the trailer and to the water can be done single handed using beach rollers. Go for a Nacra, you'll love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggles Posted August 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2005 First off, I want to thank all of you for posting such excellent and educative responses. It has been indeed a pleasure conversing and learning from you all. Last week I had reason to be in Bendigo (Victoria) and dropped into the factory where the Taipan is produced. I must say I was impressed, not only by the workmanship, but also the friendly and helpful advice received (without any pressure) from the staff there. I must also say that I had some long telephone discussions with the staff where the Nacra is produced and I came away with the same feeling re the friendly and helpful advice. (Cat sailors must be a friendly bunch). I have looked at my requirements and what I can afford etc, and also what sort of craft is raced locally, and I can't help but be drawn to the Taipan 4.9. As popular as Nacra's are in NSW and QLD, they do not appear to have the same strength of following in Vic - perhaps due to a lack of state distributor? (They are obviously an excellent craft). Coming from a sinker sailboard background, I am looking for something I can sail single handed that has some real WOW factor, but also can sail 2 up sloop rigged. From what I can see so far, the one cat that stands out in this is the Taipan 4.9 (if money is no object). Once again, thanks to all of you. I am certain that there are other "newbies" out there who have read all this and gained something from it as well. And as suggested, I will be off to the local yacht club! Thanks, and regards, Daryl [This message has been edited by Diggles (edited 08 August 2005).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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