dryzabone 644 Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 Catsailor has had a say and cut off the right of reply. In reference to: Reality Check #1 Looking at the Nationals results, Catsailor ignores one salient point, that 527 was the last placed boat to sail in all races. Seemed a convenient point to miss out ... (By the way 527, well done). Reality Check #2 Which part of my boat weighed within 12kg of the latest when they left the factory? The hulls or the fully rigged boat? Does this mean that anecdotal evidence of lighter centreboards, rudders, mast etc through the sail numbers is wrong? If there has been 12kg variance across the manufacture of the hulls (for instance) then it only adds weight (forgive the pun) to calls for a minimum weight for the class. Reality Check #3 All I would like to see is a good sailor on an older boat be able to compete fairly with a good sailor on a newer boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 Fully agree on all accounts, I'm sure if Andrew actually believed what he wrote he wouldn't be the proud new owner of a new infusion rather aiming for a top 5 finish on his older but yet (just as competitive ) nacra at the up coming worlds. I am sure Andrew will prove us wrong and sit on the side of the boat for the whole worlds while making a top ten placing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catsailor.net Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 I bought the infusion because of the fact I liked the boat and I had owned the previous Nacra for 3 years - well over the 18months that I had planned. The new boat weighs exactly the same as the one I sold (Nacra F18) because the old boat was always undercover and dry. The infusion I have is the second I have owned in the past 3 months and it is for sale after the worlds. (I will buy another infusion) As for top 10 !! - Its not the boat its the skipper and I do not think I am likely to make the top ten no matter what boat I sail - Sitting in will probably help my position in the fleet after some of the radical positions I ended up on while on wire Don on 527 still managed to finish 4th because he completed the races and finished the series. If you don't sail the series there is no point in complaining about the results. My point about the weight is that a good skipper and good sails will outweigh (pun) any differences in boat number. As for closing the topic I thought that close to 100 posts on one topic was getting a bit boring - Just sail the boat. [This message has been edited by catsailor.net (edited 09 January 2007).] [This message has been edited by catsailor.net (edited 09 January 2007).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryzabone 644 Posted January 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 And a good skipper with good sails on a boat that weighs 12kg heavier than the one also carrying a good skipper with good sails is most probably going to get consistently trounced for no good reason other than manufacturing variances. That is not how a one design class is supposed to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leapin Leroy Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 You are absolutely correct regarding one design classes. Hell, i might just take a VB Commodore with a 5.7 litre and ask to compete in the V8 Supercar series. It was once upon a time! Why is it now relegated to the feeder series?? I just don't get it? Time and technology will continuously overtake any process. Aluminium smelting, extrusion & processing are different to what they were 10 yrs ago, even 5 yrs ago. The same die thru different mills can (& do) have different tolerences despite what the buyer asks for. Lets not get started on composite materials (of any sort). Newer boats will always be lighter than older ones built to the same weight at the time of delivery. (e.g.- why do the competitive Laser sailors, even Hobie sailors, amongst others, all buy new boats on a regular basis and particularly before any major series?). In support of the 5.8 generally, You are correct, 2 things need to happen. Firstly, approach the manufacturer as a group (via the association) and ask if they can & will commit to a minimum weight, if they haven't already. Secondly, get involved with your association and ask that they create a working committee to establish an equitable handicap criteria. This can be based on age or (what-the-hell) even weight of the boat (fitted with standard equipment).(JEEZ, being on the committee is something that a few of the pundits doing the most posting could even do). Still simple really. Lotsa Love, Leroy (Or maybe just go & buy a Heron, but then, even they get competitive about weight). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REV YUKKA II Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 i know we have been going a lot better and beating boats that we could not beat before we got a new boat. i loved my old nacra but like the new one more, as far as the 5.8 fleet is going i think it is powering along nearly double the number of boats in class this year at the nationals than last. good close competition in the front middle and end packs in the fleet. the newer boats are lighter stiffer quicker so ring and order one today you will love it! i also believe that a couple of the later sail number boats may be up for sale so trade up and sell your older one to someone who wants to get onto a great boat and have some fun. one thing is for certain "you will not get good sitting on the bank" so get out on the water and pull that main on hard. REV YUKKA II Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catsailor.net Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 And Thank you for the Yukka (Vodka and Lemon in a bucket !)... That definatly makes you go faster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnt Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 While we are on the topic of weights, why do the 5.8s have a min crew weight when, to the best of my knowledge, no other Nacra class does.. john [This message has been edited by johnt (edited 09 January 2007).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nacraholic Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 Boat number is actually an 800 series, carrying what used to be sail number 1527, now 527. As for the bickering about boat weights, i dont seem to remember anyone bringing it up at the AGM. Andrew and Leroy, the new boats looked spectacular on the water! Congrats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leapin Leroy Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Thanks for the thoughts, not only are they spectacular to look at, ABSOLUTELY unbelievable to sail... Upwind, smooth... Downwind, a real confidence builder, just brilliant... Best thing i ever did and my wife has even forgiven me? LOL As to the crew weight issue, hmmm, Pete may remember better than me but here goes... In the early 80's during the explosion of off-the-beach cats there was a couple of dudes (or should that be dud's) who sailed in other classes with literally pint sized crews, and i mean kids of 4 to 6 y.o. They were incredibly quick in light to moderate breezes but when the wind got up, kids got scared, dad's screamed and boats got into serious trouble (one memorable Forster Regatta, i can recall a father screaming at an almost drowning child from the hull of his upturned cat to, "get back on board this minute"). Very quickly a number of more responsible competitors saw the inherent danger of going down this path (Pete & my father included) and moved to have acceptable "usable minimum crew weights". This did not include the concept of still sailing under minimum weight and adding lead! The idea was to have 2 capable crew who could actually right the boat and crews of similar weight who COULD HAUL 1 OR THE OTHER BACK ON BOARD IN CASE OF AN EMERGENCY! A little person could not haul the dead weight of an (injured or worse) adult back on board. I'll stand corrected, here endeth the lesson. While ever there is competitiveness and testosterone, there will always be people who will push the boundaries. This in and of itself is a good thing, it's where progress comes from, BUT, the important thing to remember is the ORIGINAL INTENT. Lotsa luv, Leroy P.S.- LOL, or you could still buy a Heron. Do they have a minimum crew weight too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leapin Leroy Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 JohnT, the Heron bit wasn't having a go... It's just that i have a recurring nightmare that i'm sailing a Heron round in circles whilst being passed by beautiful new Nacra 5.8's and F18's. Leroy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xmatelot Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 remember it well, the age (or lack of experience)was a contributing factor also, one guy even was refused entry to the worlds because of the obvious danger,he was most upset, but it was the correct thing to do pete [This message has been edited by xmatelot (edited 10 January 2007).] [This message has been edited by xmatelot (edited 10 January 2007).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 I sailed 1450 at the nationals. Day 1 with my 10 year old son. We were right on minimun weight and although the conditions were light it was too hard for him. We also had trouble powering the boat up in the gusts. The next day we sailed with 165 kg and were definately much quicker upwind. 1450 weighs 186 kg dry but more importantly is not as stiff as a new boat so it will never be as fast as a new boat. I new that before I bought it. I had just as much fun at the nationals chasing the faster boats and learning how to sail the 5.8. If you want to win regattas buy a new boat, otherwise just enjoy sailing. Cheers Drew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REV YUKKA II Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 the 5.5 also has a min crew weight rule 7.1c min wieght 125kg. i think that the min crew weight rule is a good one. when i sail with sophie who is 35kg we give the other 5.8's 2 to 5 mins head start in a 30-45 min race and we usally catch them. it is amasing how fast and low you can go down wind with not much weight. for a 5.8 you should look to have about 160kg of crew weight that is ideal, we where 165kg for the nationals on yukka II (plus stubbies). the 5.8 is a boat built for two adults to sail and that is why it is a great boat. 1450 i thought you guys sailed very well in the nationals and you where definatly the fastest of the older boats it was only that you got knocked out in the heavier races that you guys didn't win the under 1500 number boat award. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leapin Leroy Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Ahhh, the voices of reason. Well said Pete, Rev, Drew et al. I think we can now leave this rather emotive (albeit un-necessarily so) subject to R.I.P. (No pun intended). So, talk to your association, go through the right channels, be posative and aim to achieve something (rather than carping & bitching in an on line forum), get out there and have a go, thats what it's all about. And for the last word, read Paul Elvstrom's biography (4 or 5 time Olympic Gold Medalist)... There's the real story on making boats go fast (Old, New, Light or Heavy)......... I luv youse all, Leroy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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