Jump to content

F18 yardstick

Recommended Posts

Further to the discussion of yardsticks under the Mission Beach Regatta Topic:

What does this forum consider to be a suitable yardstick for the F18class?

Will the VYC create an F18 yardstick or create a yardstick for the individual designs of boats?

Mal has suggested that the Hobie Tiger yardstick of 72 is a little generous and that a more realistic yardstick is 70.5.

Would the F18 sailors of Australia be happy to use 70.5 when you for example turn up at the Mission Beach Regatta?

My own suggestion would be to start with Mal's figure and vary it from there if it is felt necessary as time goes by. Or even as a particular regatta goes by.

In this the place for such a thing to be decided? I'm not an F18 sailor as I stated in another topic but want to keep you guys happy and the racing fair when you come to my club's regatta.

Do the Hobie Tiger sailors wish to sail as F18 boats or as Hobie Tigers at mixed regattas. What about the Nacra F18 sailors. I assume that as this forum is an F18 forum that the general consensus will be as F18. However if a yardstick of 70.5 is used for the F18 will we get some perhaps slower Tiger sailors chucking a wobbly saying that they want to sail as Tigers using the 72 yardstick?

I'm looking forward to meeting you in person at Mission Beach Mal I hope you can make it. I'd love to see a few Tigers in the flesh too. There's no doubt that if nothing else the Hobies look good on the water!!

Rob Wilson

Link to comment
Share on other sites


As someone who has just bought a F18Nacra I would like the regatta to be sailed under VYC yardstick as a F18.

The main reason I have purchased a heavier slower more expensive boat is not to go faster BUT to have closer racing against other F18 boats whether they are Hobie Capricorn or taipan.

The F18 has the chance to make Cat sailing a hell of a lot of fun - Bring it on !

Link to comment
Share on other sites


The pictures of the F18 Nacra look very nice indeed! I'm sure you are going to have a buzz sailing it. Have you sailed yet? What are your first impressions?

What are your thoughts on the yardstick to be used? 70.5 or 72 ?


Link to comment
Share on other sites


No I have not sailed it yet (Crazy I know) but I have done a fair bit of research and I believe that in the long run this is the way to go.

As for Yardstick we need to keep to the VYC of 72.

If you look at both the VYC and the Texel the F18 is slower than the 5.8. Speed is not the important factor here - it is close competative inter boat racing will be against the other F18 makes - look at lasers !!!!

[This message has been edited by Andrew Holden (edited 05-03-2002).]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As state previously, the tentative VYC for a Tiger is 72. I think it could come down, but that would probably be unfair to the average Tiger sailor. Recent tiger "maulings" have been performed by sailors who have a fair bit of international sailing experience and do not necessarily reflect the performance of the boat at the hands of an average sailor.

Hobie Tiger sailors will sail as Tigers when they are the only class. When joined by other F18's they will gladly sail as F18s.

The only real difference is a lower class crew weight for Tiger, which in practice is irrelevant as most sail at the higher F18 weight anyway.

Nacra F18s, Capricorns, Tigers etc should all have the same yardstick.

We don't really care anyway because the real race will be amongst ourselves not against someone else with a time handicap.

Multihull sailors have to shed this preoccupation with ultimate speed. Its fun to go fast and that's why we all sail cats. But its the size, quality and depth of the competition that makes a race. Not just the speed. I was asked recently why one would want to change to a slower boat. Its easy...... for the racing! And because the racing is intense, the boats have been made to go fast.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by mal gray:

Recent tiger "maulings" have been performed by sailors who have a fair bit of international sailing experience

Well I think that is a problem for any new class, It takes time and practice to get the best from any boat.

In the mean time, guys who have spent the last 15 years in A-Class's and Tornado's are going to make short work of inexperienced sailors (to their boats).

Doesn't really help when you are trying to promote a class tho.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From my observations from mixed racing with 5.8 and tigers is that there is bugger all difference in upwind speed, the 5.8 is quicker in light conditions especially with a bit of chop and the Tiger is quicker when the wind is high because they can control there jib slot opening, but in general sailing there is nothing in it.

The 5.8 is heaps faster 2 sail reaching up to 20knts

Down wind the gains the Tiger makes are huge and can't be made up for anywhere on the course. I can't really comment on the 5.8 with a kite as last time I raced the Concord/Ryde marathon I was the only std 5.8 (the rest had kites) and was only just beaten home by one with a kite and two Tigers on a Upwind/Down wind course.

The yardsticks used for that race where: std 5.8 - 72, 5.8 kite - 69, Tiger - 69. Brad Sumner was by far the fastest Tiger and was beaten only by Steve Brewin.

So I think the F18 class is a faster boat around the course (and a very exciting boat down wind) than the std 5.8, but a 5.8 with a kite at least on paper should be very marginally faster than the F18, but at the end of the day it all comes down to the people sailing the boat.

The most important thing is that people just get out and sail

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Antony Edwards

The Topic of F18's is always a hot topic on the beach, it seems it is no different here.

As the race secretary for a Cat club in Sydney, the Yardstick question is very interesting. Presently most Clubs seem to be using VYC in Australia.

But most people (I have spoken with) seem to agree that VYC is becoming inaccurate because they don't update their Yardsticks often enough.

I'm inclined to agree with Mal, that the yardstick should be about 70.5, but you cannot adjust the yardstick for one boat and leave the others.

I'm expecting to have a Nacra F18 at some races next season, we occasionally see a Tiger, but all to rarely. Should these two boats be on the same Yardstick? Are the Tigers in Aust, racing as a Tiger Class or a F18 class?, what are the differences.

I hope all this is relevent.


Aus 062

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In Brisbane last season the Tigers were off 69 and then put out to 70 at the request of there fleet.

Won a few mixed regattas off 70. 72 was tentative VYC yardstick originaly given 3 years ago before any data was obtained and they still had the pin head main sail.

Whilst the F18 fleet grows most of there sailing will still be in mixed fleets and 70.5 would be a fair starting point and give them every chance of winning any regatta.

I am sailing at 67 on my 5.7 and the boats are marginal in 20 knots of breeze.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I seem to remember 67 at the peel Island regatta last year which was ridiculous.I am agreeable to 70.5 but it is not my decision.

Don't forget that yardsticks have to take into account a boat's performance in light and moderate conditions as well as heavy. Perhaps we need to submit recent results and hopefully some light race results to VYC for a review.

Would it be fair comment that the current yardstick dispute is in reference to recent windy regatta performances?

I don't complain when we get whacked by everyone in 10 kts!

When the results are taken into account, are we considering only the performance of the top boats in a class or the average boats? Are the top boats in each class sailed by sailors of equal ability? Do we allot yardsticks on the basis of a boats potential or its actual results?

Is a national yardstick like VYC impossible or do we want a state "handicap system"?

I don't believe that anyone has a comprehensive collection of data for catamaran yardsticks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

Mal and friends

It looks like you spoke too loud, or the VYC also have computers. They have adjusted the Yardsticks and it seems the Hobie Tiger are down to 70 as are Nacra's latest greatest.

Still i'd rather have an F18 than a Tornado with spinnaker.


p.s Remember we are all equal, its just some of us are more equal than others.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

More likely someone send a letter of complaint. I think I know who. At least he won't have to boycott our regattas now. While VYC is at it, they should revise the Arrow yardstick and that of the 4.9.

70 for F18 is fine by me. As I've said many times, "class" racing, within open fleets is what I'm aiming for.

We now have access to self-tackers and snuffers, so who knows, maybe 60 is next?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Hi Antony,

What's this about????

'Still i'd rather have an F18 than a Tornado with spinnaker.'

You have sailed with me on my T once and never sailed an F18. Come for a few more runs on the T. Try an F18.

On what grounds have you based this comment. I have not as yet sailed and F18 (and would like to one day) but really enjoy our Tornado. The new rig is VERY quick, if the old one was not quick enough, and the boat is extremly exciting and very challenging to sail. We are slowly getting a reasonable fleet of boats racing against each other with 3 re-rigged Tornados at Kurnell and from what I have heard there are about 10 Tornados at the Summers club in Vic and quite a good fleet in WA.

The F18s will slowly build their fleets as well. Not going to compare the 2 boats as they are both great boats, both with equally strong attributes.

Which boat would you rather sail at an international level? They are both very popular, drawing large fleets, extreme competition with many sailors sailing both classes. I personaly think that these along with the A Class are the 3 most exciting classes of boats in cat sailing at present.

Taking all this into account - would you really be so anti Tornado.

As you know I have only been involved with the T for a very short time, but am very excited along with many, with the direction the class has taken and the renewed interest in the class. I am looking forward to years of training in the class with a veiw to competing at international regattas around the world.

Sailing (For racers) dose not get to much better than this.

Anyway Ant, see you at the club.

PS. My opinion of the F18 Yardstick issue after Foster is - I belive they should be on 70 as the sailors and their boats are allot quicker than last time I saw them. Obviously the sailors are starting to get to know their boats. Brad Sumners really had the Tiger smoking up at Foster. And I think most of the Tigers and Inter 18 showed the Nacra 5.8s with spinnakers around the course. I think Yardsticks should be set on the results of the guns in the class such as Brad Sumners or Mitch Booth on the F18s and Bundy and Forbes and Mitch Booth ( there's that name again) on the Tornados.


Stephen Medwell

Team Tornado 'ALIVE'

[This message has been edited by tornado (edited 09 October 2002).]

Link to comment
Share on other sites


This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Create New...