R&D

[Darryl J Barrett]

You are confusing the point a little Berny, THE HULLS WOULD ALL BE THE SAME WEIGHT, regardless of what ever type of laminate was used! Thats the beauty of the "box rule" there is a minimum weight and it doesn't matter what materials you use, thats the minimum that you can go down to. I am quite sure that an F14 could be built at home from a "kit" in marine ply and come in below minimum weight and, depending on the efficiency of the design, be equally competitive with one built out of pure titanium, The materials, when it is all boiled down are not that important, the weights and dimensions of the formula are what "keeps them all competitive"

We have the only authorised moulds for the Flying Dutchman and although the minimum weight is high enough that you could probably build a new hull out of "ferro cement" and still be at minimum weight, you would be surprised at the combinations of different "exotics" that guys want to have them made out of, not for any weight advantage, because there isnt any, but mainly "just because they can or just want to". Our objective is to have a range of different laminated hulls that are all the same weight but vary in price so that we can cater for the "pockets" of more people. Its a bit like buying a new car, some people take the "standard" that is on offer at the lowest price and others will pay more to have the "plastic" bumpers and panel inserts colour cordinated to the rest of the cars colour, seat covers, floor mats, streering wheel trim and a sound system that costs more than the actual car,etc, none of which make it a faster or better car, they are just prepared to pay more for the configuration that THEY want! Its called choice, and that is worth an awful lot to a manufacturer. You must remember Berny that we are not only sailors but manufactureres as well and as such we don't just make a boat to have something for ourselves to sail, we also have to stay in business.

Darryl

[Darryl J Barrett]

If thats the layup of your 430 now Berny I know that we could lay up your same hulls using just E glass, a semi ridged foam core laminate, with vynalester (or polyester) resin (806) vacuum bagged and drop at least 6 or 7 K'g's a hull. If we used nomex as the core material, for a very little differnce in cost as opposed to "foam" that weight would be reduced dramatically further. and if there were two sets of moulds, so that one man could work on both hulls at the same time instead of completeing one in a single mould before working on the second, then the labour costs could also be reduced by at least a third for the completion of the two hulls (time IS MONEY). So there are many ways and means of reducing weights and costs without reducing the quality of the finished product. Similarly, if all the components of the finished cat were held "in stock" and purchased "direct", then the cat was made up using patterns and working jigs the completion time (and cost) of each cat could be reduced dramatically and thereby reducing the end price of the product equally.

This is simply the difference between "manufacture" and "building a one off for personal use"

Darryl

[berny]

Ok, then just what is the expected price difference between a polyester/foam 75k all up ready to sail F14, and a full carbon 55kg all up ready to sail F14?

By all up ready to sail I mean complete boat on the water sailing.

Bern

[berny]

And, I might add, I've been involved in designing and building production jigs and fixtures (toolmaking), developing production processes using time and motion principles, writing material and labour cost analysis sheets and generally overseeing production planning and quality control activities in petroleum industry engineering for a large portion of my business career so I have a reasonable understanding of what's required to build a 14ft cat in the most economic manner.

Will your full carbon boat be marketed for under $10.000?

[Darryl J Barrett]

You can't even buy a fully "optimised" Windrush 14 for under $10,000 today Berny (have a look at their prices on their web site) so I am not quite sure just what sort of a "gift" price you are looking for??? But, irregardless of your "work place" experience, It is not until you have worked "on the floor" with your own hands and YOUR OWN MONEY for 18 hours a day trying to manufacture and produce a minimum of one completed cat per day at the most competitive price on the market that you will KNOW just what it takes AND JUST WHAT YOU CAN AND ARE PREPARED TO DO to make it happen, and if you want to have any chance of success in this field, then you have to be prepared to follow this sort of a regime seven days a week for twelve months of the year, year in and year out. It’s just not even remotely similar to setting up and producing one or two cats in total.

When your knocking out 7 or more cats a week with only two people to do “everything” It’s then that you really learn how to save time and costs and meet deadlines. Any amount of sitting back and studying the “problem” will never achieve any where near the results as “hands on” practicality.

Darryl

[berny]

Darryl I'm not going to give a full resume of my business activities except to say that I 'did my time' 'on the shop floor working in many and varied industries producing all number of things so please don't tell me I don't know about production technique. You might be interested to know that the 430 is my personal design, built in the main by me, i.e. all the plugs, the beams, the mast, the boom, and the rigging. The sail and tramp were made to my design and ALL the mouldings under my supervision out of moulds built from my plugs.

I also designed shaped and glassed surf boards and skis for a number of years but this is all really academic. All we need to know is what the selling price difference might be between a polyester/foam boat and your full carbon boat, that's all.

Bern

[Darryl J Barrett]

A difference of approximately 20% berny