Increasing Interest

[tgh]

Found it... on catsailor.com...

do I get a prize for finding a piece of the puzzle pete ???

AUSTRALIAN MULTIHULL COUNCIL

Meeting to discuss the ISAF rejection of a multihull at the 2012 Olympic games. Invited are all interested and affected parties – clubs, manufacturers, sailors and associations.

Venue: Kuringai Council Library, 799 Pacific Highway, Gordon

Time: 1900, Friday 7th December 2007

PROPOSED AGENDA

1. Welcome and acknowledgement of key attendees. Introduction of interim committee

2. Statement of aims of the group

3. Explanation of the ISAF decision

4. Address by Darren Bundock

5. Address by Phil Jones, CEO Yachting Australia

6. Explanation of Youth situation and its impact on ISAF and survival

7. Open discussion, including of non-binding ballot of preferred multihull classes

8. Formulation of strategy including assignment of tasks

Please confirm attendance or non-attendance to John Goldsmith at goldsmith_john@hotmail.com

Those who are unable to attend should feel free to provide commentary, notes of support and any ideas. Please respond to goldsmith_john@hotmail.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[xmatelot]

tgh,

"Ten out of Ten", full marks for EFFORT.

If you and I can find it, Why hasn't any body else.

WHO IS GOING?.

To speak for us concerned "off the beach" sailors, (as well as the professional racers), and help the dwindling catamaran scene.

The venue and agenda is there for all to see, WE NEED PEOPLE TO ATTEND, and put acceptable proposals forward, that will help

the small catamaran scene.

pete

[This message has been edited by xmatelot (edited 03 December 2007).]

[berny]

Do we need a State Council to work with the National body? Might work better to get NSW sailors organised.

Do we need an interclub challenge to keep clubs in contact with each other? Each club selects a team of say mixed cats to sail a team series. Maybe a senior/all age and a youth division up to 16yrs? Could be incorporated into the bigger regattas maybe or simply sailed at participating club venues.

We at CRSC are thinking about resurrecting the CRSC Cat Parramatta River/Harbor Marathon. Any interest in that?

P.S. I'm up for the meeting.

[This message has been edited by berny (edited 03 December 2007).]

[xmatelot]

Hi Berny,

I think we need,(urgently), as much help as we can get.

Not only NSW, but all States.

Juniors are dependant upon there being sufficient Leadership and Guidance for them to make a start , and ,(most importantly,)continue to grow with the sport, this can only happen if we all get together, and ensure that it is happening the correct way.

I am sure that you will have something to say at this upcoming meeting.

pete

[xmatelot]

Channel 10 news at 10.30pm.

Maybe some much needed publicity.

pete

[berny]

I have to say that given my years of involvement in sailboat racing, management, development and promotion in Australia, I'm not in any way surprised by the current ISAF outcomes. It's been my experience that the main focus of ISAF, YA, YNSW seems to be on offshore, bigboat racing, [where the big money is], with little if any interest in OTB club level racing [where there's not much money].

The exception to this was the introduction of measures to ensure the maximising of revenue raising from these small sailing clubs. I've never seen, or been able to encourage any interest or input from YA/YNSW in small boat club activity. I've seen many, many small sailing clubs go to the wall, seamingly without the slightest interest or concern from YNSW or YA and if it happens to be a cat club there is considerably less than no interest.

Personally, I don't see any reason whatsoever for continuing my personal YA support funding. As a member, I am offered some bogus entitlements which amount to 3/5ths of 5/8ths of nothing at all useful for the average small boatclub w/end jock. These days, you don't even get an acknolegement of you having paid your fees. And to add insult to injury, cats no longer have continued participation at the Olympics. Nor it would seem, does sailing in general.

I'm not saying that we should pull the pin on YA/YNSW/ISAF but they should be made aware that they have virtually no recognisable presence at OTB club level.

[xmatelot]

Hi Berny,

I,and many others, agree with what you are saying, but the unfortunate fact is that, at the present we have to have some sort of "governing body" to enable us to organise the racing scene, and the junior system.

Maybe this upcoming meeting on friday is the start of a new direction for "Off the Beach" sailors.

We have to ensure that what is discussed ,and any resolutions, are for the general benefit, and not for the "elite" few(how I hate that expression when referring to sportspeople)

This latter paragraph is my opinion only,

pete

[This message has been edited by xmatelot (edited 04 December 2007).]

[This message has been edited by xmatelot (edited 04 December 2007).]

[tgh]

At the penultimate moment .. everyone seems to have evaporated.

The "Australian Multihull Council" seems to be presenting as a "fait accompli" with little public consultation.

I'm just an interested newbie.. but the vibes here and on catsailor are not great.

I hope that the new org is sensitive to the mood of it's constituency .. and demonstrates a more consultative "persona" as time passes.

[xmatelot]

tgh,

You and I are up here in Sunny QLD.

The meeting is being held in Sydney, and that makes it difficult for us to attend.

I feel that the secrecy of it all is cause for concern. I will E-Mail the "organiser" and ask why it was not promulgated in the ,to me, obvious place,

this forum.

Maybe he will respond,if so,I will publish his reply.

pete

[tgh]

Pete.... I'm not bothered about a plane fare ..or the time ... but I am bothered about shouldering in to what others may see as their pasture...and I am a little nonplussed as to just what is what and who is who.. and who is ...... anyway

I have a bit of street cred in media , pr..and business survival.. I have none in cat sailing.

I'm moving from heavy involvement in another high performance sport .. to revisit my first love .. sailing.

This season it's a 13 yo nacra .. next year it may be bigger and faster ..

Cheers

[tgh]

Pete.... I'm not bothered about a plane fare ..or the time ... but I am bothered about shouldering in to what others may see as their pasture...and I am a little nonplussed as to just what is what and who is who.. and who is ...... anyway

I have a bit of street cred in media , pr..and business survival.. I have none in cat sailing.

I'm moving from heavy involvement in another high performance sport .. to revisit my first love .. sailing.

This season it's a 13 yo nacra .. next year it may be bigger and faster ..

Cheers

[berny]

I also thought it a bit strange that the only reference to the meeting I could find was on an American website in the Mossie Forum.

I'm not sure who's organised it or even what the real agenda is but I've made the link to it available to as many ppl as I have in my addy book etc. I'm sure it is most likely to be for the right reasons and if enough of the right ppl turn up the meeting should go well.

It could be a really good step in the right direction but ppl here have gone a bit quiet now that there's maybe some possibility of a commitment to make the cause. Mortgages rule these days.

[xmatelot]

Hi Berny,

Like you I was a little bemused by the lack of local "OZ" publicity,but we have found that it is organised by the president of the "A class" association, so hopefully all is well. We will find out soon.

pete

[xmatelot]

Hi Berny,

Like you I was a little bemused by the lack of local "OZ" publicity,but we have found that it is organised by the president of the "A class" association, so hopefully all is well. We will find out soon.

pete

[Bundy]

Hi guys,

Firstly I want to apologies you did not know of the meeting earlier. But please don’t be concerned it is going to be an “elitist” meeting. We are all working for you all. Hence I am reading this forum now doing my home work.

Multihulls have always been a minority in the sailing community and we feel we have not been given a fair go in the past. Due to the recent ISAF decision Multihull sailing has been thrusted into the spot light world wide. It is time to act while we have everyone’s attention and hence why we have got this meeting happening.

Multihull is currently the focus of the whole sport. It may seem as though the topic is dying down in the Internet media but trust me its not. Its just gone underground and working within the correct channels through MNA’s (federations) and committees.

We have tried to contact the main people/groups within AUS multihull community. ie. Manufactures, associations, clubs and personalities and Yachting Australia to attend the meeting and have reps flying in from interstate etc

Please don’t shoot us before we get started. This meeting won’t solve all the problems/issues but hopefully form working groups to get things moving in the right direction.

Please anyone that is attending remember we are looking to the future and not the past and we are not here to have a whinge/blame but to turn things around and get it moving in the right direct.

Yachting Australia is motivated to help turn things around with multihull are keen to be involved don’t scare them off with negative comments..We need them.

My concerns are:

-Youth progression structure – youth boat/14/F16/F18/Hopefully Olympic multihull

-General participation program – back to basics/14 Super Series/family fun

-Uniting multihull sailors loosing brand rivalry

-Clubs working together/supporting each other (regatta schedules)

- Communication/websites/forums/promotion

-Talent identification

-Multihull National sponsor (funding youth program/general participation program)

-Youth boats into clubs

-“preferred/supported” YA recognised multihull classes (see progression structure)

-Obtaining Govt funding

-Representation on state YA associations

-dedicated multihull employee in YA

-Funded cat coaching

-Boat storage at clubs – local council

I hope my concerns cover the general multihull population. I don’t think we will get though all these topics but we can go away and work on them. Please advise what else is needed.

Cheers

Bundy

[xmatelot]

Hi Bundy,

Thanks for your explanation, some of us were a little concerned at a lack of publicity, but it seems that there was no real reason to be.

pete

[slammer]

I'm just back from Newcastle and missed the chat.

Interesting comments Bundy.

Where has this council been? Is it a recent creation and who specifically has it been representing and at what level? Where do I find more information- unless of course I go to Rivendell - oops sorry Gordon.

Other matters

I've whipped up a quick off-the-top-of-my head survey.

It's freeware so the survey is limited to 10 questions.

Complete the survey. And you can also...

Copy and send the link below to others. The more people who complete the survey the better.

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=lf73Y3C_2fQ2x2Mx1OZSV0lA_3d_3d

Cheers

Scott Machon

Great Lakes Sailing Club

[This message has been edited by slammer (edited 05 December 2007).]

[BBCC]

About Berney's point;"I have to say that given my years of involvement in sailboat racing, management, development and promotion in Australia, I'm not in any way surprised by the current ISAF outcomes. It's been my experience that the main focus of ISAF, YA, YNSW seems to be on offshore, bigboat racing, [where the big money is], with little if any interest in OTB club level racing [where there's not much money].

The exception to this was the introduction of measures to ensure the maximising of revenue raising from these small sailing clubs. I've never seen, or been able to encourage any interest or input from YA/YNSW in small boat club activity. I've seen many, many small sailing clubs go to the wall, seamingly without the slightest interest or concern from YNSW or YA and if it happens to be a cat club there is considerably less than no interest."

Just in the interests of knowing the "enemy", can I say that having been inside that "offshore big boat racing" scene, most sailors feel that YA ignores them and focuses instead on the Olympic/Youth OTB sailing?

In many ways the offshore mono guys traditionally have LESS input to the sport than the small boat sailors - they don't even have a class association and therefore don't have a vote or a voice in that respect. And despite the fact that they have no voice, for every rating certificate about 50% ($300) goes to YA.

The YA crackdown on crewmembers who are not club members was not aimed at small boats but at big yachts, as YA was trying to get money out of the many big-boat crew who are not members of any club. Yep, the big clubs with large membership do tend to have lots of power but isn't that democratic?

I've been associated with mono clubs that went to the wall or close to it, and they got no help....why would a cat club get less?

So it's not a case where YA is biased as far as I can see. YANSW's board is currently full of big boat sailors but some of them are/have been small boat sailors too.

Anyway - what a GREAT list of topics for the ACA meeting. It looks like a very productive effort!

[This message has been edited by BBCC (edited 06 December 2007).]

[This message has been edited by BBCC (edited 06 December 2007).]

[Bundy]

Hi Slammer (cool name)

"Where has this council been?" Missing for 30+ years.

"Is it a recent creation" Yep - Starts friday night.

"who specifically has it been representing and at what level?" hopefully it will represent you - the Austalian cat/multi sailor.

"Where do I find more information" Come, there isnt any - more info after the meeting.

Thanks for the survey, where do I find the results?

[slammer]

Originally posted by Bundy:

Thanks for the survey, where do I find the results?

I'll post the results of the survey either late tonight or early tomorrow morning ( before work). The more responses the better. I'm doing a group email now using the Great Lakes SC Wildcat email list.

Cheers

Yeah- first female response to the survey.

[This message has been edited by slammer (edited 06 December 2007).]

[Guest Nacrajono]

Hi all,

We at my club last weekend talked about having a "fun run" before lunch (as we sail the race at 2pm) This sail is simply a start line and a mark about a 3rd of a normal windward leg. Start, up and back. Quick Fast and you can have as many as you want. The idea behind the sail was lost but this has a number of positives.

1. The slower boats have sombody to pace with as we find after the first leg there is so much distance between the fleet (N 5.8's Tornado's and Stingrays) that the rear boats cant learn from faster boats (this probably applies to all divisions in all sailing clubs)

2. each sailor/boat can try changing settings and still have boats around. 3. and probably most important for this conversation. Each boat can take a jnr or learner out. Teach him/her a few things and then still race there normal race. The learner will be able to socialise at lunch and then not need to De rig ( which after 16 or 17 years still depresses me as it is so much work. any way just an idea. will keep you all posted as to how this goes

[This message has been edited by Nacrajono (edited 06 December 2007).]

[This message has been edited by Nacrajono (edited 06 December 2007).]

[slammer]

I have created a report of the survey.

I can't upload the survey results to the forum as it will not accept pdf files.

I have saved them as pdf files and I can email them out if you contact me at

scottmachon@bigpond.com

No- I'm not being difficult I'm just reaching the edge of my tech-ability.

81.6% of respondents were 35+ . I wonder if many of the current sailors are ex monohull sailors back enjoying sailing. But this time on a cat. Our club has some.

Combined multi mono events such as the Manning Marathon in Taree have exposed the VS, NS and other skiff sailors to cats that ('wow that thing can point') perform beyond the old resort-cat perception.

So while our goal, or at least the topic is INCREASING INTEREST. Let's not forget older racers and invite them back for a run on a cat.

On another matter...We landed a lovely inside back page of the local rag with pic and reasonable headline.

[This message has been edited by slammer (edited 07 December 2007).]

[Grant Rogers]

After reading all the posts on how to promote cat sailing after the elimination of the Torando at the Olympics, I propose we start a Catamaran Association of Australia.

Intentions would be to:

1. Promote cat sailing in general

2. Foster youth training programs

3. Provide coaching and training to all cat sailors

4. Develop, run and co-ordinate large cat regattas around the country, in a similar mould to the Forster Wild Cat Regatta

5. Get cat sailing back into the Olypics

To do this there would be a membership fee per sailor of say $100/p.a. and a membership fee for manufacturers and Class Associations of $500/p.a.. A website should be set-up so that member manufactures can advertise and promote their products to the people that are going to buy them. Class associations could also pay an additional fee for web hosting services.

Ideally the association funds would be to pay for a fleet of training boats, like the Hobie Bravo, that could be loaned to cat clubs in all capital cities. These boats would also be taken to all major Cat Regattas run by or supported by the Association, so that a junior fleet would be able to race.

The club would pay the association say around $1000 or $2000 for the training and loan of the boats for 4 weeks at a time. Once the Association gets enough funds from regattas and sponsorship, the training boats at could be given to clubs participating at a cheap rate so they can continue to train their own kids.

In a couple of years we would have a fleet of junior cats in all clubs.

The association could also apply for a grant with the department of Sport and Rec. in each state to assist with the initial outlay of the training boats.

The association could also assist class run regattas, helping with sponsorship and promotion of major Cat sailing events.

Let me know your thoughts.

Regards,

Grant Rogers

[berny]

I'm guessing all that stuff will be discussed tonight at the meeting.

AUSTRALIAN MULTIHULL COUNCIL

Meeting to discuss the ISAF rejection of a multihull at the 2012 Olympic games. Invited are all interested and affected parties - clubs, manufacturers, sailors and associations.

Venue: Kuringai Council Library, 799 Pacific Highway, Gordon

Time: 1900, Friday 7th December 2007

PROPOSED AGENDA

1. Welcome and acknowledgement of key attendees. Introduction of interim committee

2. Statement of aims of the group

3. Explanation of the ISAF decision

4. Address by Darren Bundock

5. Address by Phil Jones, CEO Yachting Australia

6. Explanation of Youth situation and its impact on ISAF and survival

7. Open discussion, including of non-binding ballot of preferred multihull classes

8. Formulation of strategy including assignment of tasks

Please confirm attendance or non-attendance to John Goldsmith at goldsmith_john@hotmail.com

Those who are unable to attend should feel free to provide commentary, notes of support and any ideas. Please respond to goldsmith_john@hotmail.com

[slammer]

Originally posted by berny:

I'm guessing all that stuff will be discussed tonight at the meeting.

AUSTRALIAN MULTIHULL COUNCIL

Meeting to discuss the ISAF rejection of a multihull at the 2012 Olympic games. Invited are all interested and affected parties - clubs, manufacturers, sailors and associations.

Venue: Kuringai Council Library, 799 Pacific Highway, Gordon

Time: 1900, Friday 7th December 2007

PROPOSED AGENDA

1. Welcome and acknowledgement of key attendees. Introduction of interim committee

2. Statement of aims of the group

3. Explanation of the ISAF decision

4. Address by Darren Bundock

5. Address by Phil Jones, CEO Yachting Australia

6. Explanation of Youth situation and its impact on ISAF and survival

7. Open discussion, including of non-binding ballot of preferred multihull classes

8. Formulation of strategy including assignment of tasks

Please confirm attendance or non-attendance to John Goldsmith at goldsmith_john@hotmail.com

Those who are unable to attend should feel free to provide commentary, notes of support and any ideas. Please respond to goldsmith_john@hotmail.com

NO- I'm guessing the meeting tonight will be to discuss the topic of the meeting-Read the FIRST SENTENCE after the title. ...to discuss the ISAF rejection of a multihull at the 2012 Olympic games.

And

Item 7. Is an open discussion is about which preferred multihull classes are for the Olympics.

(It appears to me that) This meeting is not about a club based development program for the increasing involvement of sailors in catamaran sailing. That good task is yet to be put on ANY agenda.

Hopefully the issue of increasing interest (involvement) of sailors in cat sailing may be raised as an item in general business and forward as an item of discussion at the next meeting.

I doubt that the 'stuff' will be discussed in any detail at this meeting.

The meeting is to get multihull sailing back into the olympics.

If increased participation is an indicator that the sport has the potential to remain an Olympic sport then the council's meeting serves a purpose in WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

It was indicated that one of the reasons for the decision was that the sport was not a very 'TV friendly ' sport. The council may find it more advantageous to engage in pursuing on-board video technology to put the case forward that cat sailing can be a Olympic sport of the future. In that case, off they go.

I look forward to the outcome of the meeting.