elscotto Posted December 2, 2012 Report Share Posted December 2, 2012 Hi Maricats, I am doing up an old 4.0 that I got for free and need some help with the rudders. I have had to make rudders out of ply and they are ok, but I am having trouble working out the kick up. I have some cord with a pulley attached to the front top to pull the rudder down and that works great. It locks off to a v shaped thing on the tiller. I have seen bungie cord on some videos and pictures and cannot work out if the cord is supposed to hold the rudders up or down. can someone post a couple of pictures of how and where all the cord and whatnots attach to the rudder and tiller? It would be much appreciated. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darcy1945 Posted December 2, 2012 Report Share Posted December 2, 2012 An 8/10mm bungee cord runs through the tiller (original tillers have a hole in the underside 50mm back from the crossbar) and attaches to the back of the rudder, with the rudder in the full up position the bungee attachment point will be opposite where the bungee exits the back of the tiller. You can attach it by drilling a hole through the back of the rudder or by screwing saddles on. Tension is adjusted by tying a knot in the bungee where it exits under the front of the tiller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elscotto Posted December 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 Righto. I will see if there is a hole in the tiller and if not put one there. Thanks againg Darcy, if you weren't so far away I would just buy your boat or that one down in Batemans Bay because I think that this will end up costing me more than $800 in the end. Spent $300 just buying sanders, paper, fibreglass, bog etc. Haven't bought paint yet or new stainless fittings. And still need a trailer to put it on Ha Ha. Ahh well, all good fun eh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knobblyoldjimbo Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 I've done it this way - in the rudder there's a hole from side to side then one that goes in through the centreline. Put the bungee through from side to side then bring it up through the tube of the tiller and out of the front. I've then pushed it through a piece of blue stripe rural tube (you could use a bit of broom stick). Then pull tight so the rudder comes up. I've then used 2mm line to tie the looped bungy just by the rudder so it's tight and forms effectively a single line through the tiller. I copied this from Mick's boat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korwich Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 Rudder setup, not original factory config but how a lot of us have rigged it, the spring is a stainless runabout stearing gear spring that I got from bias. The shock cord is only one thickness, not doubled as Jimbo and Mick have, doubled would be easier to get through the rudder blade though, going through the big hole from side to side rather than the little hole in the back edge of the rudder, (which always gives me grief getting the shock cord through it then getting that knot to sit right without running or untieing.) Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elscotto Posted December 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 Thanks fellas, just the info I needed. and korwich, thanks for the photos, a picture does tell a thousand words. How long since you went for a sail? She has cobwebs on her:D. I must say that I am really enjoying this website/forum. Lots of help, it really is a terrific community. I have just mounted the rudders/tiller onto the boat after fixing them up but have made them too long. The bar overhangs the rear beam so will have to shorten my heater hose corners. Finished patching the top decks today, tomorrow I start filling all the chunks I took out with the belt sander, hopefully get her nice and smooth. Then its flip her over and do the hulls. Then it will feel like I have made progress. Good times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pointed Reply Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 Double shock cord through big hole, Also "new" type cam instead of hyfield lever. Note junction between tiller and cross bar on both Korwich and PR.........just a simple bolt, no need for the rubber join. Best not to ask Phil why his boat has cob webs !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elscotto Posted December 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Yeah I think I will go the bungie through the big hole option. Might change my hold down cord to a bungie as well (just the bit you pull on/lock down) so that there will be a bit of give if I hit bottom. My rudders are priceless, hand carved from timbers sourced in the remote "offcuts" section of Bunnings, that I am not yet ready to replace with ones that have a value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korwich Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 I would advise against bungee for the pull downs, there is a fair bit of force trying to push your rudders back and up as you sail, you will not be able to keep the rudders locked down and forward and will get stacks of weather helm, If you want to allow for some give (thats why the springs are there on mine) I would advise exhaust pipe bungees (the little figure of 8 things that you can probably get from super cheap), or clay pipe rubber jointing rings, just fix them so as they add tension to the rope but if they break you can still keep your rudders down. Maybe it would be wise to also ask why mick doesnt have his black and white sail at the moment, I last sailed in the 14' regatta on the 9/10/12 having said that the spiders are going gangbusters at our house at the moment, must just be the season Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elscotto Posted December 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Aright, I will stick with the rope. Don't want to really start bagging people out until I have exhausted all my questions, however... Has Mick's sail got one of those windows to let the breeze through? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korwich Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 No i got a metre of it stuck in the bottom of the bay when I borrowed his boat, and it sort of damaged it, I'm having one of those seasons, all I can say is thank god for insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knobblyoldjimbo Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Just a note, those 'cam' things (pic 3) release when the rudder hits the bottom. They cost an absolute fortune. Your alternatives are either a jam cleat just rivetted to the tiller or there is a Clam Cleat version that also has an auto release (with an adjustable cam to control the pressure of release). The ones I bought were $35 for the pair from a UK sailing store. I currently have the fixed cleats and try to uncleat them before I hit the dirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elscotto Posted December 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 Mine is a stainless cleat, has a small hole for the rope to pass through and the top of it is a wedge 'V' to jam the rope. I like the spring or little figure 8 exhaust thingy ideas. Will definately look into them as I do think that there needs to be some give somewhere if the rudders hit something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korwich Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 They also allow you to pre....load the pulldown rope so as it keeps the rudder in place, with most types of clam or v cleat the rope has to pull through a bit to allow the teeth to bite into the rope/sheet. This little bit of pull through can make the difference between a well balanced rudder and one that needs big arnold to hold the boat on course. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elscotto Posted December 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 Thanks fellas, Put it all together today, put hole in tiller, fed bungie through attached at right spot, tensioned and it works real nice. Put the primer on the decks today too. couple more weeks and she will be good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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