HooD Posted January 15, 2003 Report Share Posted January 15, 2003 I am looking at a new jib for a N5.8, the genuine article is nearly $900 however a local sailmaker has offered to cut me a new one for $500. I just wanted to know if anyone had any experience with alternate sailmakers for nacra's? btw the foot of the current jib flaps going to windward, has anything changed to fix that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick Posted January 22, 2003 Report Share Posted January 22, 2003 Hood, I am sure that you know that Nacra is a one design class and all sails have to be supplieb from an official supplier. Yes your avg sailmaker can always make something cheaper, but it will not be class legal, will not be tested and will not of equal quality to the standard item. It is in the interest of the class and also to protect your investment to kep your boat class legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest berthos2 Posted January 22, 2003 Report Share Posted January 22, 2003 This idea that sails not made by official suppliers are inferior in quality to those of the official suppliers is bollocks. There are plenty of sailmakers that can supply sails of equal or better quality that those supplied by the official sailmakers for Nacra and Hobie. One of the ideas of a one design class is claimed to be to make the sailing of the class cheaper. By having the sails supplied only by the official suppliers seems to cause the cost of sails to be higher. I feel that the manufacture of sails should be opened up to anyone. What does it matter who manufactures the sail as long as they meet the meausurements of the class? If someone wants to buy an el cheapo sail manufactured by the local loft that is rubbish why does it matter as far as the class is concerned? More importantly if someone wants to pay $200 less for a sail of superior quality from their local loft (or any loft) that should be fine also. It can only be good for the class to have better or equal quality sails available at cheaper prices. This system works very well in the Taipan class. You can buy a new high tech mainsail for a Taipan 4.9 cheaper than you can buy a mainsail for a Hobie 16. The only people that benefit from restricting the manufacturers of sails for a class are the manufactures of those sails. Rob Wilson Taipan 4.9 AUS175 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mal gray Posted January 23, 2003 Report Share Posted January 23, 2003 Rob, Thats not quite the full story. In a class with one-design, manufacturer-supplied sails, everyone competes with the same sails. (size, cut, material are controlled. There is no need to buy a new mainsail before your old one is tired as all sails are the same. If someone in an unrestricted class comes out with a new faster cloth or design, competitors must upgrade to remain competitive. Although the initial purchase price may be higher, the total outlay may be less in a manufacturer supplied class. Someone must make money out of sails. In some classes its the sailmakers, in others its the manufacturer. Lots of people don't want to have to make a choice about material or cut. To them, racing is the combination of tactics and skill of steering and handling the boat. Others prefer to research different sail options in the pursuit of the speed advantage. To each his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest berthos2 Posted January 23, 2003 Report Share Posted January 23, 2003 Always good to hear your views Mal. Are all Hobie sails really cut the same? and are you not allowed to alter the cut? Out of curiosity what is the situation with F18 boats such as the Hobie Tiger and Nacra F18? The F18 rules don't restrict sail manufacturer do they? So to sail in a regatta as an F18 the owner may use a sail made by any manufacturer however to sail in an event as a Hobie Tiger, a national championships say, they must use Hobie Sails. Is this correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mal gray Posted January 23, 2003 Report Share Posted January 23, 2003 Not sure the nacra boyz want this HHHHobie discussion on their page, but here goes............ Hobie 16 sails are cut to the same pattern by two different lofts. Recuts are not allowed. F18 is a different kettle of fish. No restriction for supply of f18 sails. There are rules similar to Taipan. Hobie tiger class rules require Hobie sails. A Tiger is a legal F18 with Hobie sails but a measured F18 Tiger with other breed sails is not a legal Tiger. If you desire, you can have the best of both worlds by using Hobie sails. There you have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HooD Posted January 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2003 Well I think you all have very valid points, Although Mal certainly makes a lot of sense, and has swayed me towards a real mcoy. The taipan/Aclass/Paper tiger guys are lucky at the moment, with Glenn Ashby going head to head with Greg Goodall, but it hasnt driven the price down, it has put the quality/performance up, which probably isnt so good for owners of 12 month old sails. The main thing that made me question which way to go, is the fact that I am the only active nacra 5.8 in the state, and no one in my club would even bother saying anything about a non class legal jib. Now back to the Hobie thing Mal has anyone in the Tiger class sugessted ditching the class and concentrating on the F-18 standard, I thought that was one of the tigers big draw cards being f-18 compliant. I guess when Boyer started building F-18's Goodall will have a supply of f-18 sails, It might my interesting to see a tiger or a N F-18 with a goodall rig!. HooD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mal gray Posted January 27, 2003 Report Share Posted January 27, 2003 Hood, Even at this early stage in the evolution of F18, there has been some cross-pollination. I know of a few guys carrying taipan bits on nacras, hobie bits on nacras, F18 bits on Hobies etc. There is nothing to stop them as long as they compete with "measured-in" gear. No there is no talk of abandoning the tiger class. We want to have our cake and eat it too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HooD Posted February 11, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 I was just haveing a look through the Taipan pics, and it looks like the cool kids have red jibs this summer. Well I really like the idea, at the moment I look like every other sloop rigged boat from a distance, and my freinds have a hard time spotting me from the beach. I wonder what the chances of getting a class legal red jib are?? *looks at Mick* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael Posted February 12, 2003 Report Share Posted February 12, 2003 I'm a little late to this convo but I just discovered it. I can't speak for the H16 however over the last few years there is quite a difference in H18 Jibs and Mains. The sail area may be the same however the shape has changed. Several people at my club have bought new mains to discover some of the battens from the old sail are now too short (or too long). Laying 1 jib on top of another also shows variation. Michael Originally posted by mal gray: Not sure the nacra boyz want this HHHHobie discussion on their page, but here goes............ Hobie 16 sails are cut to the same pattern by two different lofts. Recuts are not allowed. F18 is a different kettle of fish. No restriction for supply of f18 sails. There are rules similar to Taipan. Hobie tiger class rules require Hobie sails. A Tiger is a legal F18 with Hobie sails but a measured F18 Tiger with other breed sails is not a legal Tiger. If you desire, you can have the best of both worlds by using Hobie sails. There you have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick Posted February 17, 2003 Report Share Posted February 17, 2003 Hi Guys Just a couple of things i thought i would add. Each class has there own ideas and rules and thus why we all sail different models. This is why we all drive different cars aswell. The Nacra class is a one design class and it is in everyones interest who owns a Nacra to keep the class uniform and thus protect your class and protect your investment. This is the same for the Hobies as well. I agree with the problems states above that in an open class each day a new sail can be designed and totally outdate tour one week old sail. Please exlpain to me in english how you can even think you are competitive with that outdated model. although it may have been cheaper than the norm, you now have to go out and buy a new model!!!! Doesn't sound like fun to me, unless of course your cheque book is unlimited?? The F18 is in a very lucky position. Currently there is much class racing eg Hobie Tiger v HT and Nacra F18 v Nacra F18. This is keeping the boats pretty much as standard, obvioulsy as the F18 class grows and more Official F18 regattas and events are planned more cross polination will occur but of course everyone will still go back to class legal (eg Nacra legal ) for Nacra regattas. Best of both worlds!!! As for your red 5.8 jib that is something you will have to ask the factory or your dealer. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornado Posted February 17, 2003 Report Share Posted February 17, 2003 Hi Mal, A bit off subject from the forum but Catfactory (Producers and exporters to Europe of Cobra and Stingray Cats) are soon to punch out their first F-18 the Cobray. Opens up more options for Ozy and International F-18 sailors. Good to see another manufacture joining the F-18 concept. Especially an Australian designed and built boat. We all should wish them the best of luck. See www.stingray-cobra.com.au Stephen Medwell Team Tornado 'ALIVE' AUS-260 www.tornadoalive.com supported by Club Marine (Boat Insurance) Seawind Catamarans Finlease (Marine Finance) Sign*A*Rama - Petersham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HooD Posted February 17, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2003 Tornado, you got shares in the company?? wouldnt it be great to see ausies out there on thier own design/built boats, whooping international butt I like the idea anyway I got may answer about the red jib The sail cloth that Bris Cat use is called Yarn tempered material . It is coated with resin and is far the best material around but only comes in white. The coloured material is polyester and does not last as long, which means unfortunately Bris Cat doesn't stock the polyester material. Sorry...it'll have to be white. I ordered it last week, so in 2-3 weeks she should be ready to go. The existing jib is about six years old, and is certainly past it's use by date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bundy Posted February 21, 2003 Report Share Posted February 21, 2003 Realistically there are 3 colours available in Dacron. 205 HTP Square comes in Fluro Yellow and Dark Blue. Red in 180 HTPsquare On the Tornado we use 205 on the Mainsail and 180 on the jib. I think 180 would be fine on a mainsail smaller than a Tornado. You can see pictures o the couloured sails on my website. We have used all 3 coulours, we first used the yellow at the 97 Tornado Worlds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berthos Posted March 6, 2003 Report Share Posted March 6, 2003 Bundy, What is your website address? Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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