xmatelot Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 hi, re "honesty and trust". the Notice of Race, for the upcoming Nationals , reads "measurement, it is the responsibilty of skippers to ensure their boat complies with the Nacra Class Association rules.". pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryzabone 644 Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Section 1 of the above said class rules "...The ultimate intent [of the class rules] is to encourage the use of only racing tactics and sailing skill to increase the boat speed." The only way to isolate the above two factors is to eliminate crew weight and boat weight as factors. Crew weight has been taken care of (140kg minimum). Boat weight has not been eliminated as a factor in our class, and until it is, then our class rules cannot fulfill their ultimate intent as detailed above. [This message has been edited by dryzabone 644 (edited 27 December 2006).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xmatelot Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 the second sentence in rule 1, reads,in part,"as nearly as possible the same as regards to shape and weight of hulls,etc.etc". I don't think any of us are "messdeck lawyers", and maybe we should leave all of this until the AGM. have a safe trip to RQ. pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryzabone 644 Posted December 30, 2006 Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 Heres a point for consideration on crew weight. The Brisbane Cat Centre website has "an optimum crew weight of 135kg" for the 5.8 If the optimum crew weight for the 5.8s is 135kg, why do our class rules have a minimum of 140kg? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HooD Posted December 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 http://nacra.com.au/nacra58.htm The 5.8 is the ultimate catamaran. A true international one design class, proven successful around the world. With an optimum crew weight of 135kg, the 5.8 will satisfy the most demanding racer. With its boomless design, high volume hulls, bridal foil jib and a full complement of standard features, safety, versatility and value, the Nacra 5.8 offers a package that other manufacturers can only try to equal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HooD Posted December 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 http://www.atlanticboatandsupply.com/performance_catamarans.htm Nacra 5.8 - The NACRA 5.8na is as easy to sail as it is fast. The 5.8na is internationally renowned as the consummate racing catamaran. With an optimum crew weight of 290 pounds, the 5.8na is also considered a great couples racer. 131 Kilos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HooD Posted December 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 http://www.performancecat.com/58.cfm The NACRA 5.8na is as easy to sail as it is fast. The 5.8na is internationally renowned as the consummate racing catamaran. With an optimum crew weight of 290 pounds, the 5.8na is also considered a great couples racer. Additionally, the high volume hulls and incredible stability make the 5.8na a perfect choice for the recreational sailor. With a racing bred heritage, international competition, a full compliment of standard features, safety, versatility and value, the NACRA 5.8na offers a package that the other manufacturers can only try to equal. There's nothing like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HooD Posted December 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 Originally posted by dryzabone 644: Heres a point for consideration on crew weight. The Brisbane Cat Centre website has "an optimum crew weight of 135kg" for the 5.8 If the optimum crew weight for the 5.8s is 135kg, why do our class rules have a minimum of 140kg? Now you can see why the bris cat page says what it does. they followed the yanks. we should have learned from the all the wars.. NEVER FOLLOW THE YANKS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xmatelot Posted December 30, 2006 Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 hi hood, merry xmas,happy new year . i think the nacra 5.8 na is no longer favoured, it is actually in the nacra US website archives .The new US version of the boat,nacra 580,taller mast, sqarehead sail,front beam jib sheeting,swing up centre boards, a very different cat to ours, i may be wrong, but we will have a reply for sure. PS. Optimum = most favourable(i think). pete [This message has been edited by xmatelot (edited 30 December 2006).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HooD Posted December 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 Hi Pete!! Seasons greetings! I think your thinking about the new nacra 580, the replacement boat for the 5.8 its pretty alright. http://www.nacra.us/580/580dex.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryzabone 644 Posted December 30, 2006 Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 Hi, Unless I'm wrong: 290lbs = 131.8kg (divide by 2.2). If they are different cats, then not relevant I spose. The other interesting thought was that BCC list the weight of the 5.8 at 160kg (and I guess if anyone should know it would be BCC). Most of the above conversations have the weight of the current 5.8s at 165kg. [This message has been edited by dryzabone 644 (edited 31 December 2006).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xmatelot Posted December 30, 2006 Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 all my long life i have had to deal with US lbs,Troy ozs, averdupois weights,tonnes,tons,KGs, displacement, deadweight, ( and the value of the English pound vs the Aus $ ,) and i still get confused . I believe that BCC have allways done the right thing by ALL of their sailors, and are to be congratulated on their efforts to keep the various classes alive, and trying their hardest to maintain the ongoing value of NACRAS. Positively my last post on this most contentious subject. pete [This message has been edited by xmatelot (edited 30 December 2006).] [This message has been edited by xmatelot (edited 30 December 2006).] [This message has been edited by xmatelot (edited 30 December 2006).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryzabone 644 Posted December 31, 2006 Report Share Posted December 31, 2006 Sorry Pete, I re-read my post and there was a tone in there I have corrected. My point was more about highlighting (as if these posts haven't already done that) how much assumed knowledge there is about our cats. Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xmatelot Posted December 31, 2006 Report Share Posted December 31, 2006 hi mitch, understood, no worries , all the best for 2007. pete PS. Definitely my last post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HooD Posted December 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2006 Maybe the boat is 160 kilos fresh from the factory, after a couple of years they take up some water, some extra pullies here and few shackles there.. 5 kilos wouldnt be hard to achieve. Looking at the 580 specs, who in thier right mind would buy one? 180kilos? may as well have a f-18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryzabone 644 Posted December 31, 2006 Report Share Posted December 31, 2006 I know that one of the latest 1600+ boats was weighed at 166kg only recently, and it is rigged up very lightly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leapin Leroy Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 I have been led to believe that BCC have kept records of the hull weights of every boat to leave the factory. Should this actually be the case and it is revealed at the AGM, there will be some egg on some faces due to the LACK of major variations in finished boat weights. Will those who have perpetuated the crud apologise at that point? I have worked on some well known off-shore racers over the years and one in particular gained over 500kgs (from 2 1/2 ton at launch) in a very short space of time (4 yrs). Spit happens, get ovet it or buy a new boat every 2 years. Simple really. Lotsa Luv, Leroy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HooD Posted January 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Hey Leroy. Now which bit are we weighing here? as previously noted the dagger boards, rudders, mast, have all undergone weight reductions to decrease overall weight. I picked up 888 before it hit the water in 1987 I can tell you now it weighed a lot more than my boat after it had been sailed for 3-4 seasons. It all depends on what you difine as significant, if you believe 10-15 kilos isnt much then so be it. At a worlds 2kg is considered significant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryzabone 644 Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Leroy, transparency is a great thing. Bring it on. If things are as most believe and we have different weight divisions amongst the 5.8s, then we can push for correct handicaps amongst these divisions to encourage more 5.8s back on the water through equalised competition. We would all love a new 5.8, but as a new father I know that is not happening for a long time, so I have to enjoy what I have for now. Better to keep me interested and sailing now than wait for me to show up when I can afford a competitive boat. As an engineer with a specialisation in data analysis, I am looking closely at our NSW Super series results, and am keen to see what comes out of the Nationals and NSW States in regards to comparing results amongst the sail numbers. I will be happy to share any preliminary results. If as you say, the numbers dispel the myths, then I will be happier for knowing and we can all get on with enjoying our sport. Mitch [This message has been edited by dryzabone 644 (edited 02 January 2007).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HooD Posted January 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 Did the scales make it to the nationals??? if so what was the verdict? What was the outcome at the AGM ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micky Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 Guys, This topic seems to have lost a lot of sense and is starting to become a bit out of control. as i have mentioned earlier the best way to have a say in "your" class, is firstly join your local Nacra Assoc. then expres any ideas or questions to them and ask them to send to the national body. This has been the process for many years and will always remain. it seems to me that the majority of people commenting on this topic do not even attend Nacra events! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catsailor.net Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 REALITY CHECK #1 #527 Nacra 5.8 Oldest boat in the Nationals and BY FAR THE WORST EXAMPLE OF A 5.8 YOU WILL EVER SEE Came 4th. This Boat Had: The worst Sails The Worst Hulls The Worst Beams The Worst Mast The Worst Repairs Broken rear beam BUT It had a sailor on board that knew how to sail and even though he did not trapeze during the event they STILL came 4th. Its time for 5.8 sailors to stop blaming weight/boat sail numbers for poor results and just get out on the water and attend regattas. REALITY CHECK #2 When the boats left the factory they have all weighed within 12Kg of each other. All boats have repairs/absorb water/gear added to them and this affects weights. As a F18 sailor I know that a brand new wet F18 weighs more than 5kg more than a dry brand new one. REALITY CHECK #3 A Good Sailor on an old boat will beat a poor sailor on a new boat. Join the Association, sail at Nacra events and look after your boat and you will be at the front of the fleet regardless what boat number you have [This message has been edited by catsailor.net (edited 08 January 2007).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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