QB2 Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 Are there any combined figures on how many cats per class attended their respective nationals over the holiday break. I counted from online results just a handful of tornados and stingrays this year. Where are the big fleets? Lastly from a historical viewpoint does anyone know of any Qb2/3's in existence and actively being sailed. I think the last time they held a nationals was over 10 years ago. Qb2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_taipan117 Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 In response to your question I did a quick review of the national results posted on the web. I don't guarantee complete accuracy of the numbers as I suspect some fleets include entries that actually didn't show up. Taipan 52 (made up of 20 cat, 21 sloop, 11 5.7/F18) A Class 49 Hobie16 (Australian/Asian) 41 Paper tiger 40 Nacra 32 (4 fleets) Mosquito 29 (2 fleets) Hobie tiger 20 Hobie 18 (worlds) 28 Hobie 17 (worlds) 17 Maricat 19 (13 super sloop 6 cat) Cobra 17 Tornado 7 Stingray 5 Arrow not able to locate results Yvonne as above 356 entries in total (probably 400 with Arrows and Yvonne fleets included), perhaps 550 participants. No doubt Hobie fleet numbers were elevated by world title status and being held in association with Sail Melbourne. I would suggest that in general fleet numbers are significantly less than at the peak of cat sailing in Australia, the 80's, but I don't have any figures to back up this statement. I don't know when the last QB2/QB3 nationals were held. Probably late 80's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QB2 Posted January 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 Any reason why stingray numbers have dropped off?- I know there used to be a strong fleet at lake cootharaba Qld, but most of the hardcore crews apparently found other interests and have been missing in action for the last few years, I thought the class was still huge in SA but not so apparently. Tornados are also declining apparently. maybe they have to wait for the next olympics for numbers to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 I can verify the Paper Tiger fleet of 40 boats (and all turned up and competed). This was a drop in usual numbers for PTs, probably attributable to the fact that it was held at a location with no local PT fleet (Victor Harbor, SA), which is also a reasonably remote location. However, there were still 5 states represented (Vic, SA, Tas, NSW, Qld). Numbers of states competing would be an interesting comparison for each of the fleets mentioned above. Numbers in PT Nationals over recent years have been around 50, which is excellent, but certainly down from its heyday in the 1970s and 1980s where fleets over 100 were seen. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REV YUKKA II Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 maybe the stingray are down because people are just getting out of the boats. i used to have a stingray. just got sick of having to fix it after ever race and chasing leaks in it all the time. go the 5.8's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QB2 Posted January 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 this is a loaded question, Whats the choice range if I want a quality solo/2up cat with sufficient fleet numbers to race against in south east Queensland? I certainly don't want to be the sole Qb sailor in a fleet again. What price range am I looking at? Qb2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 I would say Hobie 16. Ore Taipans as you can sail them 1 up or two up.The main fleets in south east QLD are the Taipans, Hobie 16 and Tigers, Caparcorn, A class,And the NACRAS 14sq,16sq, 5.8 and the f18 Nacra.These classes would be the main classes in QLD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABC Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 If you're looking for a boat that you can sail in both 1up and 2up forms then the only boat that fits the bill is the Taipan 4.9 really. I am of course unashamedly biased (being a Taipan owner) but if you're looking for both forms out of the one boat you can't go past it. I don't know how many Mossie's there are in QLD but you might also consider them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest none Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 Mossies, A lot of them in the swamp near bye. have not seen a good mossie for years in QLD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QB2 Posted January 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 yes, a Taipan would be nice, but 8k or more is well above my price limit, unless I can sell the kids off into slavery. I have never been as lucky as the guy in Townsville who inquired about an A class which had been sitting there for some time. He was told to take it away as mum's sailor son was overseas, wouldn't miss it for several years, and she was tired of it taking up space. Qb2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mal gray Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 Mark, What is your budget? This will help to narrow down the options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_taipan117 Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 Clearly a number of classes are in decline, or have virtually become extinct when it comes to organised racing at national level. With generally reduced numbers it makes sense for catamaran sailing in Australia to consolidate into maybe 5-6 multi-class divisions for the purposes of national and state titles. The suggested divions are: training and entry level (less than 14 ft, eg Arafura cadet) formula 14 (eg alpha, arrow, maricat, paper tiger, windrush, H14) formula 16 (cobra, taipan, mossie, H16, blade) formula 18 (nacra, hobie, AHPC, blade etc) tornado Aclass classic (yvonne) The tornado and A class are grouped together because there seems to be a natural affinity between these 2 classes. Both are international high technoology classes and sailed by guys that seemed to have endless budgets. I have no doubt that the tornado would also cease to exist as a viable class as soon as it dropped from the Olympics as an event. The above divisions are not grouped on strict box rules such as the present F16 and F18, more along the lines of similar speed, sail area and length. Obviously to set up the various divisions would need a lot of co-operation between the various classes. A few egos would probably be dented. Also the last thing I would want to see is an expensive competition between manufacturers to produce the fastest boat in each division, as appears to be occurring in the F18. Seems that if you buy a Nacra F18 or Hobie tiger this season you run the risk of having to spend $000's to upgrade the boat to remain competitive with the latest design/thinking next season. P> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 Phil, I can see some merit in your idea, especially at state level, where numbers are usually less than for the corresponding Nationals. However at National level, many of the classes are thriving. For instance, the Paper Tiger gets 40-50 boats at a Nationals. There would be little benefit in them combining with another class, but there would certainly be some disadvantages. As long as a class is getting around 30 boats at their Nationals, they are sustainable and deserve their own event. I suppose it will eventually come down to whether the class can afford to operate in isolation or not. Using existing regattas as a State Championship is an excellent alternative for small, cash-strapped classes. A number of monohull classes do this. The Windrush class has used the Koonawarra Bay 14ft Cat Regatta as its State Titles a couple of times. They get a separate start, so they have a fair event, but they still qualify for the overall prizes in the regatta. A pretty good option for a class with 10-20 boats. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QB2 Posted January 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 Mal, planned budget is $2k up to about 4k Budget as of right now, this instant, is absolutely zero as my kids hammered me with uni/high school expenses-books, laptop, accomodation bond/rent among others. I arrived home to find the council rates. bugger! A cheap Mari or other 14 footer may be my only option when I do rake up some cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mal gray Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 Mark, have a look for a Calypso 4.4, Calypso 16, ancient A-class or a cheap Hobie 16. Knowing your fondness for painting timber boats, I would suggest you also look at the Cobra. If you are not gonna race, buy a Hobie Bravo for the family Mal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QB2 Posted January 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 Mal thats a cruel shot. I have resolved NEVER to attempt another ply boat rescue or respray without professional help. Is a Calypso 4.4 as good as a Nacra 4.4 but only half the price? There was a 20 year old H16 advertised recently for $1600...Interesting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nin Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 The calypso 4,4 is a top little boat and rather quick as well. low maintence and not to many roaps to pull.There is a small group of them out at Wivenhoe Dam if you want to see them.They are easy to rig bye yourself as the mast is rather light. The 14sq is also a good boat and is meant to beat the 4.4 but not always. A bit more aquid to rig bye yourself but it can be done bye useing your trailer rear mast post. As for price you should expect to pay for one around $2000 to $5500 depending on condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QB2 Posted January 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 Thanks for your input- I will keep an eye out for a calypso 4.4 or other suitable solo cat in between saving like mad and hoping no other bills come in. Is there such a thing as a cheap Taipan yet? Would an A class be significantly faster because of its length and higher mast than a calpyso or nacra 14sq? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Antony Edwards Posted January 23, 2005 Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 QB2, A classes, are heaps faster, to put it mildly. The main reason they are faster is the length and rig size. But, also, as they are a developement boat, they all the flaws developed out of them. Ant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aman Posted January 23, 2005 Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 Not exactly. The main reason is weight and rig efficiency. Other important reasons are length, platform stiffness, hull shape, rig weight and overall refinement. The Nacra 14sq actually has more sail area than an A. It is a good boat in it's own right but as mentioned above is not comparable in performance. Just look at the yardstick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REV YUKKA II Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 if you are only going to spend a little on a boat don't get something that is a development class (A class)for eg. your yardstick is based off the latest fastest model that is being sailed by the best sailers around. you might have a bit of speed out of an old A but you will get killed on handicap every race you go in. the other thing to consider is your own wieght and that of your crew. especialy if you are considering a light wieght flyer like a tipan 4.9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QB2 Posted January 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 thanks for the info. I hadn't considered yardsticks so this is another factor to put into the equation of what I can try for. I was looking for a cat with decent local fleet numbers and options are narrowing while the expense, especially for A class is prohibitive apparently if I want to be competitive.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mal gray Posted January 26, 2005 Report Share Posted January 26, 2005 We'll probably have a dozen Hobie 16s on saturday at Mooloolaba. You can get one of them for a few grand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QB2 Posted January 26, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2005 Mal, I will have a look-I doubt if they'll sail if this wind keeps up though. Its blowing the crows out of the trees at my place. I have more than a few things to consider while I try to save up. Thanks everyone for your comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmessee Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 Just an idea of what second hand A-Classes go for on their web site. A Class Cat on trailer. All trapeze gear and sail rudders foils etc. Ready to go… Boat and gear in good condition, suit beginner. Aluminium mast. $2200.00 ono. Boat garaged at Mt Pritchard near Liverpool NSW Contact Derek: Mob: 0407331202; Email: dezza@snowy.net.au AUS 608 Boyer / Goodall, aluminium mast, good condition, ideal first boat ready to sail and race includes beach rollers $2,990 Contact Chris: Ph 03 9557 4748 or 0416 202123 seets@bigpond.net.au AUS 687 Mark 3 $4990 ONO with kevlar hulls and aluminium mast in good condition. Ideal first boat ready to sale and race. Includes cover and beach rollers. Contact Gary Crosthwaite (Victoria). Mobile 0438 387107. Email: gcro2549@bigpond.net.au AUS 725 $9,500 Black Label, Boyer Mk 4 (non canted), Carbon Hulls, includes beach wheels, 2mm beam, 2 Goodall sails, Saarberg Mast plus trailer for $300 Contact: David Laurie Home: (07) 4972 8131, Email lauried@qal.com.au And there are more above 10K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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