warbird Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 I sail in heavy weather. 14 sq dives too early. I want to rake the mast more but my lee is already too heavy. Who has faced and fixed this. I am thinking of changing rudder angle...?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HooD Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 Do you mean weather helm? lee helm is when the boat wants to sail off the breeze. if you have weather helm (boat wants to round up into the breeze) you can tuck your rudders under the boat to make the helm feel more neutral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmessee Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 If it is lee, then you have a few options. You can add some thin plywood to the leading edge of your rudder where it enters the rudder box. Firstly just use some tape to get it right. Once it is right you can glue it in place. You can glass it if you want, but liquid nails is brilliant. You need to waterproof it. You can also drill a hole and add a delf tap screw and adjust it until it is perfect and then make more permanent renovations. I personally just added some foam with elecrical tape and that lasted 2 years. Lazy I know. If it is whether helm I get the angle grinder out and start cutting out a bit at a time of the leading edge of the rudder until I am happy with it. BCC will tell you measurements to go by as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeflyguy Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 I don't know if you have changed your rudder pull down system to the 2:1. I had the old system that was 1:1 and cleated on the tiller arm with a popping mechanisim. This when pulled on hard would give 1cm as it cleated giving 3cm to the bottom of my rudder blade. The 2:1 runs up over the a Clam cleat which works much better. If you want to know more let me know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warbird Posted February 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Sorry guys... it is weather helm. mono moment. Originally posted by HooD: Do you mean weather helm? lee helm is when the boat wants to sail off the breeze. if you have weather helm (boat wants to round up into the breeze) you can tuck your rudders under the boat to make the helm feel more neutral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warbird Posted February 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Yes, I would love to install a good update. Originally posted by zeflyguy: I don't know if you have changed your rudder pull down system to the 2:1. I had the old system that was 1:1 and cleated on the tiller arm with a popping mechanisim. This when pulled on hard would give 1cm as it cleated giving 3cm to the bottom of my rudder blade. The 2:1 runs up over the a Clam cleat which works much better. If you want to know more let me know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeflyguy Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 The 2:1 setup is currently used on all the 14 sq in the Kernell Club in Sydney. Items you will need. 4 or 5mm rope 6 to 8mtrs in length. 4 pulleys 2 clam cleats. One of two options a 2 mounted rollers or 2 D shackles. Step one remove the pull down rope that threads through the rudder blade and replace it with rope that doesn't strech. Your pull down rope needs a piviot point as it no longer will run up the tiller arm. You could use the D shackle by running the shackle bolt pin through the top of the rudder pin. The pull down rope can then thread through the shackle and onto the deck. I did mine differently and mounted a roller to the underside of the tiller arm directly in line with the rudder pin. Step 2 you will need to remove the end caps from the rear beam. Drill a hole in the rear beam to tighly fit a rope through. This hole is to be drilled on the side of the beam facing the stern and in line with your rudder. Once you have drilled the hole for the starbord side repeat this for the pot side. Tie a pully on each corner of the front beam. Your deck rope with a knot and washer will exit the drilled hole in the rear beam. It then runs rearward down the deck to thread through a pulley which will attach to your pull down rope. The deck rope then exits the pulley to double back over your rear beam and along the deck to your pulley attached at the front beam. The deck rope then exits this pulley and follows the front beam to your next pulley where it then runs down the other deck to over the rear beam to you second rudders pull down rope, with its pulley before doubling back into the drilled hole in your rear beam. Tie the knot with a washer and its done. The clam cleats needs to be mounted on top of the Rear beam where the deck rope passes over it. Once finished you will have 2:1 purchase and you can pull your deck rope from anywhere on the boat to lower both rudders. The only danger is your rudder wont auto pop up apon impact but I haven't found this to be a problem as I am always aware that I need to release the rudders early. Its a lot to explain so fire away with any questions.. [This message has been edited by zeflyguy (edited 14 February 2007).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmessee Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 In the past I have had a 2:1 system connected to the pop up system. It works well and still you can hit the beach running. You however can't pull them down from anywhere on the boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warbird Posted February 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 A couple of questions. THis system seems very heavy on deck mess adn I wonder for what reason. Is it so the rudders can be lifted idividually so as to sail with one rudder and them remotely pull them down when needed? I really tey to flick the deck cordage unless it is really a help. I enjoy the feel of one rudder up when sailing up wind but I believe that is all it is. I see no speed advantage. Can you tell me your ideas about this. Also I have created what I think is a great inhaul update and would like to post a photo.. can i do that here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeflyguy Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 The deck rope could be avioded buy cutting it after it crosses through the clam cleat. You are correct you can drop the rudder after lifting it should you wish to. As to speed I had the same problem as you with weather helm and no mast rake. She tended to want to dive alot. Changed the rudder setup to the 2:1 system and it held the blades in closer and now the rig is fully raked with very little weather helm and it points better. I also find if I push the bow in too far in choppy conditions she slows up alot as apposed to lifting it a little. Try testing your current 1:1 system. It looks fine and pulls the blade right in but grab the bottom of the blade and put some load on it as you would get from high speeds. You will see the 3cm or so travel I am talking about. [This message has been edited by zeflyguy (edited 14 February 2007).] [This message has been edited by zeflyguy (edited 14 February 2007).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeflyguy Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Also I still have sore arms from weather helm in very windy conditions and by rasing the center boards a hand span or so it helps remove some weather helm. [This message has been edited by zeflyguy (edited 14 February 2007).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warbird Posted February 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 That's what I needed to know! Good one! I will go and check the rudders now. If the 2 to 1 is not pulling afr enough is a packer in the top gudgeon too silly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warbird Posted February 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 thanks for you feedback. What I also need is a clear description of how far back this boat can enjoy the mast rake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warbird Posted March 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2007 Okay to update. Before I took to the rudders and moved the pin angle I simply moved the mast back. Four up on front and three down on rear. I thought the helm would be REALLY bad but then I could work on it. Went out is 15 to 20. The boat sailed beautifully. Much LESS weather helm and nosediving improved and much more predicatable. EVERYONE says more mast rake more weather helm...so what just happened??!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.