Dr Peter Posted April 12, 2011 Report Share Posted April 12, 2011 I noticed that some older boats converted to the radically raked rig had late numbers (5000-6000) while others seemed to have their old numbers (3000-4000). As a person who is having a new sail made for his old boat and expects to change to the radically raked rig. What should I do wrt to the number? Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyquoll Posted April 12, 2011 Report Share Posted April 12, 2011 The idea is that your sail displays the identification of your hulls; never changes. This applies to all sailing boats. Was just talking Maricat sails with Pointed Reply, he informs me the newer ones have fuller top which allows more rake. The higher sail number indicates newer boats, who have newer sails. More rake moves the sail centre of effort aft, which makes the boat tend to round up into the wind; like tacking a windsurfer. When you correct this by pulling the rudder towards you, the rudders generate lift, which helps the boat point higher. If the steering is too heavy (too much force required), then the blades are angled under the boat a bit more to put the centre of effort closer to the steering axis. Great that you're keen and getting into sailing! Best wishes, Tony (PT2901 Tigerdelic) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korwich Posted April 12, 2011 Report Share Posted April 12, 2011 If you are attached to your old No. keep that. If you can find your boat ID no. you could use that. I used to have sail 586 which was my original boats No. I bought a newer 2nd hand sail it had no. 5005, when I had a new sail made I used 5005 again, so as I dont have to remember sail No.s when I go to register for a regatta, my boat No is actually 5604, but I've never had a sail No with that on. Its up to you. There is a fair few sails getting around with derivations of 3919 (which is Wayne Barries No) such as 391, 919, 19, 91, etc as Wayne used to get new sails fairly regular and sell or give the old sail away, the new owner would just peel of a few No.s to give it a new identity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knobblyoldjimbo Posted April 12, 2011 Report Share Posted April 12, 2011 My understanding was that sails are registered by the association separately so you apply and get the most recent number. I think this is so that the class looks (much) more populous than it actually is. Be aware that the sail measurement has changed in recent years as Tony says to allow for the changed rake that is used now. Some sailmakers don't necessarily know this but (now) the measurements are on the class website. To allow for more rake with an existing sail you either get a bit cut off the foot or as my guy did just put another clew a bit further up the leech (with appropriate strengthening of course). Remember also that you'll need to take an angle grinder to the mast step to allow the newly raked mast to step properly and rotate easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyquoll Posted April 12, 2011 Report Share Posted April 12, 2011 Agreeing with Korwich; there is the famous case of the 49er medal race in the 2008 Olympics, in which the winners sailed a borrowed boat with all the wrong sail graphics. The ruling made was that this provided no unfair advantage, so was allowed. Read more: http://www.sailing.org/news/24827.php Based on that ruling, yes, you can display any sail number (or lettering) you want. Against that idea I argue each boat has a unique identity which should be maintained. If you obtain second hand sails and keep those numbers, then you are creating a duplicate of another boat, and losing your boat's true identity. This will make in hard for future owners to learn about their boat's history, and potentially creates conflict of two (or more) boats having the same numbers. Jimbo's point offers an alternative; if you get the association to issue a new number, then they will have record of the change. In that case it is still possible to retrieve info about the boat's history and you are sure it still has a unique number. This is the correct approach to changing numbers. In the Racing Rules of Sailing, Appendix G, there are rules governing the sail numbers. For 14' cats, the numbers should be at least 300mm tall, 60mm apart, and use a commercially available font. In my case people argued the use of Psychedelia font on my sail numbers was illegal, but in fact this IS an allowed font. On the other hand 9 out of 10 boats at that event had their sail numbers too close together and it was the protestor who failed to comply! Protest quietly went away before it was lodged. Download the rules from: http://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/RRS20092012with2010changes-%5B8222%5D.pdf 2435 is a good number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knobblyoldjimbo Posted April 12, 2011 Report Share Posted April 12, 2011 Interesting Tony, I hadn't noticed the font! I chose 37 for mine just because! There isn't really a likelyhood of another 37 turning up and the original 37 is probably in a landfil somewhere (given that it escaped Darcy's grasp!). It was also not so low as to be pretentious! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Peter Posted April 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 So here is my scenario. My boat, 2435, is about to be fitted with a new sail to suit the radically raked rig and I planned to keep the same sail number (I have been unable to find any number on the hull by the way). However, after comparing 2435 with what a good sound boat should be at Batemans Bay this year, I anticipate purchasing another boat to which I would want to transfer my new sail. A bit like Phil. After this my old boat 2435 will be broken down for parts and will only appear to exist because the new sail is being used on the new boat. Should I purchase another sail sometime in the future then I could then get the sail number to match the new boat's hull number assuming I can find it. Given that maricats can so readily update hulls (mark 1s to mark 2s) being precious about a hull number seems moot to me. I have not thought about this really deeply, and I certainly don't know all the facts, but it seems to me that if you have modified your older boat to the extent of the radically raked rig then you have a very different boat to what you started with. Perhaps a new sail number should reflect that change? Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Peter Posted April 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 So here is my scenario. My boat, 2435, is about to be fitted with a new sail to suit the radically raked rig and I planned to keep the same sail number (I have been unable to find any number on the hull by the way). However, after comparing 2435 with what a good sound boat should be at Batemans Bay this year, I anticipate purchasing another boat to which I would want to transfer my new sail. A bit like Phil. After this my old boat 2435 will be broken down for parts and will only appear to exist because the new sail is being used on the new boat. Should I purchase another sail sometime in the future then I could then get the sail number to match the new boat's hull number assuming I can find it. Given that maricats can so readily update hulls (mark 1s to mark 2s) being precious about a hull number seems moot to me. I have not thought about this really deeply, and I certainly don't know all the facts, but it seems to me that if you have modified your older boat to the extent of the radically raked rig then you have a very different boat to what you started with. Perhaps a new sail number should reflect that change? Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humungus2 Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 Hi Peter, I would say after seeing you boat that the sail number is not the original. If ever you are pulling the beams off the boat you will find the original sail number written in texter under where they bolt down. But this is anther tack all together and it was just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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