Captain Cosmo Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 How much mast rake are the top cat rigged sailors using. The tuning guide mentions 200mm forward of the rear beam. Mine is set at about 300mm, maybe even a touch more. The boat sails well and points high (as high as the other 14's and even old mono's i sailed against). I raked the mast back alittle further to see how it went but felt the the boat now sailed in a much narrower groove (it was shifty but the boat did feel to stall easier) and have since set it back at 300mm. What are you guys doing with rake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knobblyoldjimbo Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 CC have a look for TonyQuoll's comments, I think they might be under the Toukley Brass Monkey regatta thread but he (hotshot Paper Tiger sailer) had a lot of trouble tacking Darcy's Mari until he reduced the rake. I've just had the pleasure (nay, honour) of sailing Mick's foamy for a regatta and a weekend. Interesting stuff, Mick has his mast raked back over the traveller and I left it there. With the help of Ian Markovic (another hotshot PT sailer) I'm starting to be able to tack, even on my old $600 Mk2. In fact yesterday I was even able to tack at will for tactical reasons (ie knocks and lifts) rather than having to because I ran out of room! This is after about four seasons in Maris (yes, I accept the slow learner prize!). Yes I think the 'groove' might be narrower and sail shape and adjustment (downhaul, mainsheet and outhaul) is important. I can understand though that bringing the centre of effort of the sail back further over the only foils (rudders) must help, I can also understand that big rake can help stop going down the mine off the wind. Adjusting the mast step also makes a difference, you'll need to cut it out to let the mast rotate more which in turn allows you to use the mainsheet to bend it more easily (particularly if you have the 'ribbed' mast (with internal ribs) which are stiffer than the non-ribbed masts). This again allows you to flatten the sail without use of the downhaul which tends to release the upper leech which isn't necessarily a good thing (unless you're seriously overpowered in heavy wind). J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humungus2 Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 Well done grasshopper. You are ready. If you can tack my boat then you can tack. I leave my rigg lose cat rigged wich helps me down wind. When I sailed at Stockton on Saturday I was pointing as high as the MG's. The to SS riggiged Maricats didn't have a hope of getting close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knobblyoldjimbo Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 ahh-sooo ! tell you what, there was nothing that I hadn't done before, it was just the choreography and the timing. what a true pleasure being able to tack at will (tacked in front and to lee of Rimo - he was just waiting for me to stuff it up!!) - I'm sure there will be new moments in the future but for now Saturday was a turning point! no more watching ten boats go past while I'm in irons (hopefully!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiddyCat Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 Good to read that someone with 377 posts (obviously loves his cat sailing) is still thrilled to have tacked a cat rigged Maricat. Only had my cat 2 months and was getting really frustrated when I could outrun dinghies but then get left for dead when there was a need to tack. Sometimes worked, sometimes not, never in light winds. Spent some good meditation time in irons figuring out how to lie down push the boom out with my feet and reverse steer until I was on a usable tack . I have much preferred to gybe if there is any option to do so. I have an old Maricat and old sail. If i was to rake the mast back much there would be no space to pass under the boom when tacking (unless severe wind fills sail and lifts boom). Are the newer sail shorter or cut at an ngle etc to allow for height under the boom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knobblyoldjimbo Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 DC I too have an 'old' sail. Mine is a 'racing' sail which means that someone once won a race with it!! Mine is the old shape and a sailmaker (by coincidence the same guy that reckoned he'd made this sail as an apprentice 25 years previously) sewed a D ring and a strip of webbing about 6-7 inches above the clew. I just tuck the old ring and the new ring together with the result that the boom is higher. With the 'modern' mast rake I can get the boom down onto the blocks which I can't do with Mick's fancy 'modern' sail. I have quite old triple blocks (probably 50 - 65mm dia). Yes, I've spent long periods backing the sail to reverse turn - on Mick's boat two weekends ago I was approaching the mark about 50m in front of the fleet (as one should on Mick's boat), did a tack without thinking hard enough and saw ten (yes TEN) boats go by before I could get going again (heard laughter too!). Tricks include: don't thrash into the turn too hard, you just stop the boat, let a bit of main off and pull the boom over (to twist the boat around), stay on the leeward side (scary!!) just as the main slots over and the battens pop (or not depending on how old the sail is) pull gently on the main and straighten the rudders (this last bit I should put in CAPS - don't do it and pulling the main in will just feather the boat into the wind). If you're lucky you'll feel a slight kick and the boat will start going forward (if you're super lucky you'll feel a big kick and the boat will start heeling and rocket forward), wait just a few moments longer to climb up onto the weather side. Easy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korwich Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 So going by post numbers Jimbo if you have 378 posts to your name and Scuttlebutt (Mark C) has only 61 that means that you are a better sailor than Mark by 6.196 times. Will this equate to some kind of Manno/Darcy hard to figure handicap rating system. Just wondering. By posting this I may have now affected my handicap rating based on No. of posts. Phil (You are also a better sailor than me by 1.303 times) I've reattached a photo showing a really top looking boat sitting on level ground at fairly close to side on. If you drop a line from the top of the mast to the decks it gives you a bit of an idea of where my rake is set at. Mick and I have come forward from that at present say 100mm at the top of the mast (I achieved it by removing my stay adjusters and just using a shackle to attach my bridle to the bows and I have come up one hole on my 2 side stay adjustment) and at last sighting when our 2 boats were together (3 weeks ago) the mast rakes were near on identical. Yes I know I am sloop rigged but Mick does sail his boat cat rigged as well, (as stated by Jimbo) and I know he does't alter the rake bugger all for sloop to cat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knobblyoldjimbo Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 Phil, I can categorically state that the number of posts is due to the 'yack' factor and is no indication of the proficiency of the 'yacker' only the amount of time they have in between work tasks!, or the alleviation of the stunning boredom of yet another 2 1/2 hour commute. DC it is enourmously satisfying to do a tack in which the speed of the turn (measured by wake over the rudders) is not significantly reduced and is followed by rapid acceleration because I've got the sail settings just right. I've done this only a handful of times (the earliest of which was with my last cat (with new, fast Eastwind sail) when I tacked so fast I didn't have the time to get up onto the windward side and capsized!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zed280 Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 HI Guys thanks I have been looking around a Mast Rake for some time and am still a new sailing and have read post from other sites most recent was from a Hobie site in the USA there it was said that in 14" or 16" foot cats use your halyard measure at the front beam the move to the back and it should be about 6"to8" longer there ? correct me if I am wrong For me I am still learning to sail and to understand some of the affects of turning and Mast Rake comes up often and correct me if this is not so More mast rake the harder to tack but better in weather helm and less nose diving ? and yes I too very early on was told to grab the boom and pull or push to get through the tack and what a difference it made any input is welcome and I sail in the Brisbane area Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Peter Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Tacking I would support Jimbo's Tricks and add for light winds once you get over the windward side it helps to get your weight forward to the front beam - it seems to unstick the boat - and you don't have to stay there long. You may also have to rotate the mast and make sure the battens have all popped. The other thing is do not sheet on too fast too firmly. Also have the traveller let out just a little. Peter Light winds are what we live for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knobblyoldjimbo Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 another thing on the 'yack' factor, I have 3190 posts on Careel.com so I've a long way to go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korwich Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 You really have way too much free time Jimbo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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