mylar sails

[nacra-maricat australia]

Mylar sails are not allowed on Nacras in Australia.

We have found that the dacron sails last allot longer and are more user friendly.

[cat man]

How can you justify that dacron lasts longer than mylar sails when mylar is proven to be more resistant to stretching than dacron. as to your arguement of being user friendly, wouldn't it be better to say friendly to the sailmaker and dealers hip pocket rather than the sailor who has to keep replacing sails??? Remember it is not the sail cloth that determines how good or bad a sail performs but how it is cut, so would a cloth that is proven to not stretch as much be a better opinion

[mal gray]

I think that, how a sail is used and handled, determines its life. On a modern rig, pentex definitely has a longer racing life if it is looked after. A dacron sail stands up to punishment with less damaging effects and therefore will last longer with recreational use.

Most older sail designs simply will not work in pentex.

[HooD]

Well its like this cat man...

Mylar sails are indeed allowed on Nacra's in Australia. BUT nacra Australia will not make or source them for you.

If you import your own from the USA or europe and they are made by "NACRA" then they are 100% class legal. there are a number of 16sq's running around oz with mylar sails.

Mal is right about the mylar sails not working in the cross cut format many of the nacra sails are built to. as such the mylar sails that are available are vertical cut.

Mylar has a habbit of delaminating, they tend to die at a fairly early age, so you really dont want mylar.

however vertically cut pentax is quite another story...

[Scott]

Hood I think you are showing how long it has been since you have been to a Nationals! At RQ last nats not a mylar sail insight on a 16sq. I don't believe a mylar sail has been made for a 16sq in the last 10 years.

Yes the 16sq originally had a mylar sail but is was a slab cut. They had a problem with these as they kept tearing the heads off them. So they bought out the vertical cut mylar sail. This was a very good sail that performed extremly well. But they would only be competive for about a season and ahalf of club,regatta and nats sailing. And yes mylar doesn't streech it just reaches a point after a season of hard sailing where it delaminates and pulls in half and cannot be repaired. How do I know this because I had the third vertical cut sail in Australia and it happened to me.

I was also there when the dacron sail was bought out and can tell you it was just as quick as the mylar sail and if anything it is more controlable in a breeze. I belive the dacron sail suits the rig better.

Maybe if the 16sq and 5.8 had wing section mast and ran prebend the mylar sails would work better and last longer. But they don't.

If you buy a NACRA to race at NACRA events then you know the Australian class rules if you don't like them don't buy one. If you do buy one do something for the NACRA class (like atending nats and states and promoting the class)instead of sitting back and critising !!!

[Scott]

Just re read the last part of your post Hood don't even get me started on pentax I could buy 2 dacron sails for the price of 1 pentax main for probally no gain in performance.

[HooD]

Originally posted by tornado:

FYI, pentex square tops are not as expensive as you may think. A Goodall main for Capricorn will set you back $1700

And a current Nacra 5.8 mainsail is:

(5581) Mainsail without Track (Dacron)

Sales Price: $AUD1676.19

maybe you can get some mars bars and tooheys with the change???

pwned

[micky]

This isn't the first time certain people have tried to "quote" the Nacra class rules and have been proven wrong. Scott is exactly right in all that he said. Being a 16sq owner for many years now i to believe the Dacron sails last longer, perform better in the breeze and are still competitive when they are a few years old. ]

Quote by hood: "If you import your own from the USA or europe and they are made by "NACRA" then they are 100% class legal."

Well for one Nacra Europe or US will not sell to you, and two they will not be class legal. They have to be supplied by the Aus manufacturer.

Lets use this forum as a positive outlet for OUR class. Buy a Nacra, pack your bags and go sail at a Nacra regatta.

As i have said before, if you want to get a point across, join a Nacra Assoc, send them your ideas, and go the AGM at the Nats and we will discuss it then!!!

[HooD]

Micky, If I were on holidays in US or europe, would my money not be good enough for "nacra" ? What about if i had a friend overseas and got them to buy one for me?

of course i could buy one if I wanted one BUT as i said in my first post. NO ONE WANTS A MYLAR SAIL. including me

and I do know of a 16sq still sailing on a mylar said. it is still in great shape and would be legal at the nationals. yeah? of course it is.

[cat man]

Originally posted by Scott:

If you buy a NACRA to race at NACRA events then you know the Australian class rules if you don't like them don't buy one. If you do buy one do something for the NACRA class (like atending nats and states and promoting the class)instead of sitting back and critising !!!

Yes I bought a nacra which I am very happy with but I Have had a no time for the assocation which over prices its product I had quoted for a new 5.8 jib $415 for a new dacron jib and $450 for a mylar from a sail maker down here in melbourne. The sail maker down here stated that the mylar would out last dacon as well. Same jib price from dealer just on $900. As for mylar delaminating in my club alone there is a fleet of A classes with mylar sails a few years old and they look one hell of a lot better that a dacon one a few years old

[scumbag#1]

I HAVE A 16 SQ. MYLAR SAIL AND IT BLEW OUT AT THE TOP AND WAS NOT AS FORGIVING IN A BREEZE, BUT IT DID LOOK GOOD IN GELATO COLOURS, (RED, WHITE & GREEN). IT IS STILL IN VERY GOOD CONDITION EXCEPT FOR THE HEAD AND WOULD MAKE A GOOD ORNAMENT IN A LARGE GARAGE. I MAY SELL IT IF SOMEONE IS INTERESTED. (SAIL NO 29, COREY WELL DONE, 5TH AT THE STATES ON AN OLDY BUT A GOODY)

[HooD]

Cat man, Are you sure your not confusing pentax with mylar?.

also there are differnt flavours of mylar, you can get a dacron that is coated with a mylar film which is the one that tends to delaminate. this breed can come in all the different colors that dacon comes in. we used this material with windsurfer sails in the early 90's those sails didnt last well.

then came a mylar with a heavy weave through it, im not sure what it was called. it was used a lot for skiffs, some a-class and more windurfers. we found on the windsurfers it could not stand the foce of landing in the sail and would rip from one end to the other. normally came in a white or a gold color.

[cat man]

The mlyar that the sailmaker down here was referring to was "racing mylar" not sure of it manufacturing or technical name it was a smokey see through cloth with lines of carbon fibre running through it. The sailmaker explained that it is these lines of carbon fibre that take the strain of the sail and that these are less prone to stretch than other materials thus holding the shape of the sail for longer.

[Guest Cormeister]

Why thank you Mark, I think you must have taught No. 29 well in its earlier life, it still goes very well. I probably could have used that original mylar sail (with the head missing) on Saturday and Sunday as I was trying to find a way of getting rid of about 2 sq mtrs of sail in the stronger breezes, just to rub some salt into the wound Scotty advised all after the races on Saturday (in about 25 knts) that on the first windward (where he passed the entire fleet) he had no luff on as he wasn't prepared to go that far forward and get it, everybody else was maxed out trying to keep there boats in the water. The older other older boat also did well, Andrew was sailing No. 11 (Scottys old "Sootty Grunter") after some tuning during the earlier races this boat started to really perform towards the end of the series. Leon also got his newly aquired 16 going near the end of the series, may have had something to do with using Lloyds battens. To depower on Saturday and Sunday I used the extra heavy top 3 battens from the older sail, similar pounds to a crowbar, Warren resorted to the age old trick of tapping 2 battens together.

If I remember correctly the battens in that mylar sail on No. 29 came from the original mylar sail on Dreamweaver, No. 33 at the Nationals in Illawara.

Anyway back to the real subject, when I first had No. 33 with the original Mylar sail it was unstopable in 0 to 8 knots after that it became an exercise in keeping the sail together, I pulled the head off this thing 3 or 4 times and must have had every seam re-stitched about the same number of times, the sail was not very tunable and did not perform very well outside this range, after the change to the dacron sail it took a bit of learning to get it to work well but when we got it figured out they were much better across the board. The dacron sails on the 16sq were a definate improvement and defininatly stay fast a lot longer than the mylar sails did. Anyway by using genuine Aust Nacra sails everyone is using the same sail (with its good points and bad points), we all have the same sail that can be tuned to suit a number of factors. Isn't this one of the good things about sailing NACRA, its not who has the most expensive or ellaborate set of sails but the skill of the crew sailing and tuning the boat.

Just my two cents worth.

[cat man]

I still don't think that it is overaly fair that the assocation is able to charge double the price of what sail is worth just because it is class legal!! the material cost would be some where around the same for both manufacturers and so would the labour costs, so who is ripping who off??

[HooD]

Hey cat man

I wouldnt feel that badly ripped off... now you see the capricorn mainsail pictured above with a street price of about $1700. with a big "H" on the sail it costs nearly $4000.

I didnt think anyone used mylar sails anymore, but I was wrong... seems its good enough for hobie : http://www.hobiecat.com/sailing/models_fox.html

I did some research on the internet and it turns out mylar is a common film to use. But its the fibers inside the film that do the work. the fibers used are carbon, kevlar, spectra, vectran, whatever else is lying around at the time

[Scott]

Catman

I think you better get your facts straight. Since when do you buy your sails from the Assocation?????

Sometimes it is better to keep your mouth shut then open it and prove it!!!

[cat man]

ok for those of us who wish to be picky I should have said the nacra dealer not association are you happy now scott???

[cat man]

Thanks hood. Thats the point that I am trying to make, if a sail was only made of a beach towel and only cost $10 I wouldn't mind replacing them a bit more often and when that same beach towel costs double the price from one shop to another shop and they are both made from the same material, where would you shop. My only arguement for mylar is that if it is going to last longer due to not as much strech this would mean not having to replace sails quite as often.

[dood]

NO

[cat man]

And NO means???????

[farmboy]

Hi Catman sorry this is completley of topic but where in melbounre do you sail as my brother also sail a 5.8 but can only find one other and it sounds like you make two if you wish you can email me at amc54249@bigpond.net.au we sail every week at Altona and don't mind visiting other clubs to sail with others Nacras.

[REV YUKKA II]

you are right in what you say about class sails being twice as much, it seems that it is that way across the board so we shouldn't single out one class. it is good to see that some of that money is put back in the way of sponsorship for class events. it is also a concern that even though the price on ALL class sails are high it dosn't make the quality of the sails heaps better than that of an after market set.

[micky]

Guys,

In my opinion the Nacra class sails are quite cheap compared to other one design classes. A new Laser main is around $900!!

There is a reason we all sail one design classes. It is simple, we enjoy racing a good well designed boat where everyone is competing on a level field. Development classes require new sails etc just to remain competitive.

You all have a choice on what boat to buy and sail. So once you have made that decision run with it, dont complain to the rest of us.

The Nacra is one of the best cats available on the market, a high quality boat, well finished, strong association and fantastic support from the manufacturer.

Why do we spend more time sailing and getting more Nacras on the water, i think that is a far more use of your time!!

[HooD]

http://www.teamvanguard.com/2005/base/content.asp?section=boats&dir=core& page=boats_features&boatid=4

laser mainsail $1000 +$47 for battens and 76sq ft

nacra 5.8 jib $900 and 75sq ft

http://www.pixie.com.au/category21_1.htm

both have 3 leech battens and a luff pocket, only thing is the laser has sold hundreds of thousands of sails to recoup the development costs.

I can understand Hobie sails being so expensive in the f-18 line, they have done heaps of R&D, paid the best sailors to test them, and it all costs money, some one has to pay for it.

[This message has been edited by HooD (edited 17 April 2007).]