peter Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Hi Everyone, Just wishing to canvas peoples thoughts and opinions on the singlehanders mentioned above. In a previous message I was trying to gauge people thoughts on whether jumping into an A class ( version MK3) could be viable for a sailor with a lot of dinghy experience mainly in lasers and some experience in cats via a maricat. I realise that it could be a very steep learning curve initially, but the first would year would be club racing only ( most likely at Gosford). Would a MK3 A class with an alloy mast be reasonably competitive at club level, given the lack of skill and experience on my part. I am not sure of the various pros and cons of the other boats especially the singlehanded Nacras. The paper Tiger does appeal as a smaller alternative but it appears they may be difficult to obtain. Once again any advice would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Peter, You've probably heard enough from me, but I do agree with the post after mine. A Class cats are a very well balanced boat, but they are still big and powerful. An experienced Laser sailor would certainly learn far faster than a beginner and would probably mange OK. Don't forget to do a "try before you buy" sail. Paper Tigers can be hard to come across at times, but it depends on what level of boat you are after and how much you are prepared to spend. If you do decide to go with a PT, let me know and I will try to help you source one. Regards, Dave Stumbles Publicity Officer Australian Paper Tiger Catamaran Assoc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted March 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Thanks for your replies Dave, they have been informative and helpful, the PT class is luck to have you. I certainly will try before I sail, if I think a PT is the way to go I will certainly be in touch, probably would be looking at spending around $3000. noticed one for sale on the Vic web site $4,500 for a ply model, but no doubt ready to race. Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryn Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 I've swapped back and fourth between Lasers and Mosquito's twice in the last 6 years. Currently on my third Mosquito. The skills you learn sailing a Laser will transfer well into Cat sailing. Unless you are addicted to hiking I would not purchase a Paper Tiger, my Mosquito is much more uncomfortable then a Laser to hike off and I suspect a Paper Tiger would be the same. The fleet racing looks good however in the Paper Tiger class. I haven't sailed an A class, they look fantastic, borrow one and sail it on a 10 knot day, you wont be able to get the grin off your face. What other boats sail at your club? For the sort of money you are talking you would pick up a good Mosquito, a little more would get you a 16square. Darryn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dowling Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Peter Some further comments to add to those I made on your earlier post. It is really hard to compare an A and the other classes you mention. They are vastly different in performance. I think you first need to decide whether you are interested in the smaller boats or the larger one and also have a look at what is sailing at the club you will join. The assistance and support from people with similar boats and competition on the water is a big plus. Another way to look at it is compare the numbers of boats sailing in a class at a National and State title level. You may not want to compete at that level at this stage but it gives an indication of the strength of the class and how many you are likely to find around the clubs. The "try before you buy" is also good advice. The question of would a Boyer Mk3 be a good club boat depends on a few issues. It would certainly be good for someone wanting an entry level high performance boat which is going to be reliable and allow them to build their skills. It would also be great fun. If you expect it to put you in front of Scott Anderson who sails at Gosford on a Flyer then you'll be disappointed. There is only one sailor who can consistently beat Scott............The advantage is that sailing with someone of his stature and willingness to assist would be great. There are also a number of other top A sailors at Gosford. Anyway, get on the water and hope to see you at a regatta some day in whatever boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted March 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 Thanks for your reply John, I am going into the club at Gosford to have a chat to the A class guys and to ask their opinions etc. Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted March 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 Thanks for your reply John, I am going into the club at Gosford to have a chat to the A class guys and to ask their opinions etc. Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmessee Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 Where in Gosford do the A-Class cats sail from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted March 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 They sail from Gosford sailing Club, I think there were six or seven there last Saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catboy Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 There is also post on A Class on this site if you own one of these great cats. http://beachcatsaustralia.ning.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyquoll Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 As mentioned above; Paper Tigers require hiking, where the others use a trapeze. I've sailed Lasers and PTs and find the hiking equally uncomfortable; you have to be fit and like to push yourself physically. Trapezing is much easier on the body, but you are trapped in one position. If you like the way the boat responds to you leaning back or inboard, then trapezing may bore you. A-class and Mosquitos are both development classes, so it's likely the boat you can afford is obselete, or so will be, and you're unlikely to beat other boats on yardstick. A local A-class sailor always crosses the line first and comes last on Yardstick; his older boat not as quick as the yardstick figure. However, current kevlar-hulled mylar sailed Mosquitoes are awesome on the water, likely to be valid for at least 5 years, and have the great option of adding a jib and crew if your kids get into it. Nacra 14square are one-design, so old boats are near equal to newer ones. However on Dad's 14s he's just bought a new sail and mainsheet blocks ($2000+ total) to make the boat work better. Paper Tigers are also one-design. Mine has 15 year old ply hulls & carbon foils, 5 year old Redhead sail, new mast & some fittings; total cost under $3000 and it's as quick as any. I've just sold a 30year old one on trailer for $800. It won 5 regattas in the last 2 years and a 6th place /40 in a heat at the Internationals; it still works! I think body weight is a consideration if you're wanting to win races. A-class are huge and need a heavy skipper. Probably Nacra 16, 14square and Mosquito, suit 75kg+, while the PT can suit 50 to 100, but 75 to 85kg is frequent for National champs. But whatever really; get what's being raced at your local club, or 2ndly whatever you can pick up as a bargain. Have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bad dog Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 sorry everyone - posted new topic instead of reply to this one. Ignore it - it might go away. I meant to post this here: I have owned PT, Stingray, Catapult, others I can't recall. I sail a very old A Class - 20 years actually, it's a Mk4 of sorts but in some ways is also a Mk3 - it was ahead of its time in 1990. Not at all competitive at a national or state level, although it can hold its own upwind in light conditions. But do I enjoy it? - oh yes - ooooh yes. I still grin like Cheshire. So far it's cost me about $6k with 2nd had carbon mast. Forget aluminium - you won't easily right it. If the platform is sound and lightish, you can put a C rig and newish sails on it for less than $4k. Trapezing is great for maintaining flexibility in my old bones - I look on it as strategic pilates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bad dog Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 re ideal skipper weight for an A - seems to be about 80kg. Brewin, Ashby, all the recent national & world champs have been about that weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NixonJr Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 GO THE COBRA pick up an old boat, put new sails/rigging on it and your almost as fast as a new one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dowling Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 Current weights doing well in A's from the nationals are 67kg to 95kg. The rigs are very tunable and the heavier skippers are benefitting downwind from the 1 metre head sails. Designs from the last 12 years are very competitive at a national level with earlier boats still good at club level. A design conceived and launched in 1998 came third in this year's nationals. A pretty competitive fleet to when the America's cup winning sailing coach could only come 4th, the skipper 22nd, the mainsheet trimmer 33rd and the tactician 41st. BTW an earlier post said A's and Mosquitos are development classes. A's are but Mosquitos certainly not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyquoll Posted March 21, 2010 Report Share Posted March 21, 2010 My mistake; after seeing old timber Mozzies & new Kevlar ones I thought the rules must have allowed development - they are totally different; nose shape, sail shape, materials, weights etc. A good description of Mosquitos at: http://home.vicnet.net.au/~nmcca/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
becjm Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 Hi Peter The reasons I purchaced the Mosquito was that. They are very easy to rig single handed. They can be sailed 1 or 2 up. As you get better, you can add a spinniker to make the boat even more of a challenge. It is better if possible to get a Boyer built boat or newer fibreglass one. The older ply boats are OK but can be a little overweight. The class is very popular in South Australia and Victoria, there are 2 Mozzies racing on Lake Macquarie, 2 in QLD and 3 in Tasmania. Nationals were just held in Mannering Park, NSW 27 boats turned up and my Boyer built mozzie built in 1991 with a very dodgey skipper got equal 6th out of about 18 boats (cat rigged)it cost me $5000 so old boats can still be up there. On yardstick in mixed fleets they are very competitive. There is an article in "Australian Multihull World" on the nationals (in the shops now march I think). Any boat you choose will be great. Good Luck. Cheers Ben [This message has been edited by becjm (edited 23 March 2010).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furr_ball Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 Mosquito info just to clear up a few details. The class is a fixed design, all boats whether old or new must fit measurements and templates for hulls, sails, beams, weight etc. Not a development class, the association has maintained measure rules so old boats are still in the mix. The fact is it was a great de Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucketman Posted April 8, 2010 Report Share Posted April 8, 2010 Mozzie or Cobra this is the question. Which one is better for dinghy and 14ft cat sailors who want to climb the F16 ladder? Posted this ques before but somehow the post and replies vanished. Please don't think I'm trying to change the thread as these boats are the natural progression due to their price and their versatility. There is no substitute for horsepower and waterline length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
becjm Posted April 14, 2010 Report Share Posted April 14, 2010 Originally posted by bucketman: Mozzie or Cobra this is the question. Which one is better for dinghy and 14ft cat sailors who want to climb the F16 ladder? Posted this ques before but somehow the post and replies vanished. Please don't think I'm trying to change the thread as these boats are the natural progression due to their price and their versatility. There is no substitute for horsepower and waterline length. I would go for the Mozzie Because there are More raceing & growing. There are still New foam sandwitch boats being built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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