Darryl J Barrett Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 Well, we now have the Alpha Omega F14 out of it's "development" stage and to see just how well it really does perform against any 14'/F14 catamaran, I am posting a challenge to ANY 14'/F14 catamaran to a race for prisemoney of $1000.00, winner take all, which I am more than willing to put up. The conditions of the challenge race are as follows. The challenge will be conducted at a normal racing venue at a club in South Australia (preferably at Adelaide Sailing Club or at the Milang Regatta Club) the race will only be decided on the first across the finish line of a completed race ie the win cannot be due to breakages, if either cat cannot finish the race due to breakage then they have to resail for a "legitimate" result The Alpha Omega F14 will sail in its standard "commercial" configuration and the only restriction on any challenger is that it must be a catamaran without hydrofoils and is no longer than 4.34 metres in length (Which is longer than the AO F14 that is exactly 4.3m in length) Any one wishing to take up this challenge, please contact me through this forum or by email at ao14@optusnet.com.au Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_taipan117 Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 Hey Darryl If you are not sure, can you phone a friend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl J Barrett Posted March 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 Phone a friend, pat your favourite pet dog, bring along the whole encyclopaedia Britannica, it’s all the same to me. All I want is a friendly, real, cat race! Darryl J Barrett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornado Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 Would the Kitty cat fall within the F-14 rules...... [This message has been edited by tornado (edited 04 March 2005).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl J Barrett Posted March 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2005 Sure a Kitty cat has hulls lest than 4.3m, so it would be fine, and I would love to se one out on the course, they were (and still are) a great cat well ahead of their time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Concerned Sailor Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 I'm Not sure that a race like this is really in the best interests of any of the 14 ft classes including the f14. I'm sure I could super charge any number of 14 footers that would kick the F14s butt. But whats the point. Get someone else to build a boat within the F14 rules and race them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl J Barrett Posted March 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Supercharge to your hearts content, as long as the hulls are no longer than 4.34 metres overall in length without hydrofoils you can fit any type of (soft) sail rig that you like. It will not make any difference to me. the race challenge and the prizemoney still stands for anyone that wants to do more than just debate it. "Actions speak louder than words" so show me the action and spare me the time wasting rhetoric please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl J Barrett Posted March 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 If you really think that you can "super charge" ANY 14' cat and "whip our arse" don't talk about it, DO IT, (I'd like to see THAT), why have you entered your post as "unregistered" I hope that that is not just a way of trying to keep your identity a secret from the forum??? (doesn't always work you know). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Concerned Sailor Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 I think one of the bueaties of this forum is that unregistered uses can give their views. Your welcome to find my identity if you want. I agree not all 14s would have the potential to be bastardised into line a honours weapon. Some would love it though. Below minimum wieght paper tiger with trap, jib, kite and big rig would be hard to stop, just as an example. But i repeat again what is the point? The F14 is a great idea, there are too many 14 foot classes as there is. And a formula 14 would be a great way of bringing all of the 14 foot sailors together, just like the F18 has worked for the crewed cat sailors. What are you trying to prove daryl? Is it that your f14 is the fastest 14 around? Well it very well could be. So what??. My point is that someone will always build one faster if you don't stick to your formula. There is enough segregation in the 14 ft community already. Unless of course you want to go down the path of the 12 ft skiff. Which wouldn't be a bad idea but would be outragously expensive. Theres some more rhetoric for you Darryl. It so happens however that a couple of us are already a fair way down the track of having a 14 footer to take you on. The only reason it hasn't hit the water is that we came to the sudden realisation that we were wasting or time because there would be no one to race. Supporting the classes already in place is a higher priority. I could even have a crack at you with my standard class legal 14 I'm sure i could put up a good fight and what have i got to lose except your 1000 bucks. Don't stir us darryl i'd love to take your money off you. Shame it would only just pay for the fuel to get to your race. Maybe we could meet half way? The prize money would be better spent advertising your new craft to the sailing community and trying to get some close class racing happening. Lets face it Daryl class racings where its at. I've ranted enough for a hole year now i reckon. Id love to see a photo of you boat Daryl. Regards CS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl J Barrett Posted March 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 In the coming months we will be spending advertising money with national sailing magazines, as well as going through the formallity of "test sails" together with write ups, and I will book space at at least one boat show (possibly more depending on my available time) this coming winter, but what better way to raise the "exposure" of 14' cats than to have a "challenge" race(s)?? If the cost of travel is a detterent to you, I am preared to pay all the travel and accomodation expences of any successful competitor, better still, I will raise the prizemoney to $1500, that should be enough to at least get someone interested? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl J Barrett Posted March 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 It would seem that a few people do not feel that a "prizemoney" challenge is an appropriate way to promote 14' cat sailing! My only intention of posting such a challenge was first and foremost, to try to encourage a higher profile for and greater participation in 14'cat sailing/racing. If this is not seen as an appropriate way of doing that, then I shall, as of now, withdraw that challenge. I find the general participation in sailing, at present, much less than sailors who love the sport, would like to see, and I am willing to do anything that may have a positive effect on increasing the numbers "out there" sailing on a regular basis, I thought that a "challenge" may just spark a little more interest, but apparently it has not been seen as the "right thing" to do, so if anyone would like to put forward another way of raising our (14' cat sailors) profile and numbers, please come forward with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 Don't let people put you off promoting catamaran sailing Darryl.. I thought your challenge was a top idea, in much the same way as not everyone can afford to sail in an America's cup, it certainly helps raise the profile of the sport to the general public. Any sort of challenge sparks interest. If held at a club where other catamarans are sailed, spectators may not be able to afford a development cat, but will still be exposed to other cats and the sport will benefit. As for the "we can build a better 14foot cat" type statements, that's much the same as me saying i can build a better formula 1 car than Ferrari, i just don't want to contribute to F1's escalating costs. If you can do it, then go ahead, otherwise you are just smoke on the water! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CS Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 I'm Actually disapointed that the challenge has been withdrawn. A few of us 14 sailors who have been offended by some of darryls claims have been running the numbers on the weekend and we would have, and still can come up with something to take you on. The only smoke on the water would be coming off the bows of the victorious challenger. If nothing else i'm sure you've fired a few 14 sailors up to get out on their boats and practice. I think you guys are still completely missing the point. However i wont repeat myself. Just read and take on board what ive already outlined. Please answer this question darryl. What in the world is wrong with promoting your cat at large regatta's where most of your market are present and racing against everyone on yardstick? Simple solution hey, and a shirtload more spectacular than one boat thrashing another. 14 foot challenges are already in place in other states. You guys should learn something from that. No better way to have close "friendly" racing, and everyone gets a chance to see what the other classes can do. No need to make things more complicated than they already are. Regards CS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl J Barrett Posted March 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 C.S. "Offended by Darryl's claims"!! WHAT CLAIMS??? To date I have made NO claims. All I have done was to offer a challenge! I'm not the one making the claims, you’ve made claims that "Below minimum weight paper tiger with trap, jib, kite and big rig would be hard to stop" and "It so happens however that a couple of us are already a fair way down the track of having a 14 footer to take you on", and "have been running the numbers on the weekend and we would have, and still can come up with something to take you on". All that we've done with the Alpha so far is to race it in "major regattas" as well as test the Alpha F14 against ALL sized cats under race conditions at club level to determine the preparedness of the cat in it's final configuration as well as it's performance potential. What we DO have now are a few undeniable, OFFICIAL results that relate to the Alpha's performance on the racecourse, NOT CLAIMS! I can only state AS a FACT (not a claim) that the Alpha F14 sailed in the GOOLWA to MILANG "classic" on a yardstick of VYC 84 against mostly 16' cats and 20' Yvonne's (with asymmetrical spinnakers), beat them all home (over the line) and was placed second on yardstick only to one of the 20' Yvonne's. It would appear that YOU are the one making the claims!! apparently based from what you write, on your own theory relating to something that hasn't as yet been seen "on the water" and may or may not ever eventuate. If you are so offended by anything that I have written and think that you have a point to prove, then lets just see YOU out on the water to show just what a brilliant designer/builder you intimate that you are! I would love to see another 14' cat that we could test the Alpha against, and if we were found to be wanting I would offer you my unequivocal congratulations and admiration, I would by no means be "offended" by being surpassed by a superior design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl J Barrett Posted March 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 CS, I am a little confused by your posts here. Firstly you are of the opinion that a "prize money" challenge is totally inappropriate, and then you are disappointed that it has been withdrawn. Which is it? You say we should sail the Alpha at "regattas" etc, which is exactly what we are doing, but you say that that is where our "buyers" will come from. I am sorry to disappoint you but it is a commercial fact that, for any "new" commercial catamaran to rely on their survival from "existing sailors" already sailing on other classes of cats is a sure road to anominity. Sailors already established on other cats do not suddenly swap boats whenever some thing else (or even better) comes along; it is generally a long process for any sailor to "change classes". The only way to commercially, successfully, introduce a new cat onto the market is to, promote and sell to "the general public", many of which have either been out of sailing for some time, or have never sailed before. To successfully market a new boat a new generation of sailors has to be targeted, not people already "sold" on the class that they already sail in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CS Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 You Claim for starters that your boat is out of the development stage. Fairly interesting claim since the F14 is a development class. Top of the page. I wont continue on that road. And in my defence, I did not make a claim i mearly provided you with an example. Do you have trouble with your comprehension? Its all in black and white. The only thing im disapointed about is that i don't get to prove what a goose you are. However, you may find this hard to believe, I'm on your side darryl. I was just trying to point out that in my belief you were on the wrong track. I have not seen too many other opinions on the topic and i would love to see them. And how bout that photo of your boat. I wouldn't have a clue what it looks like, and its people like me you should be promoting the boat to. Heres an idea. Why don't you race the 14 footers that have been present at the regattas you attended, instead of Yvonnes. phff. Big deal. CS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAX Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Daryl, would just like to say that I think your challenge is a good idea and should help to promote F14s and other 14s including the existing classes. I guess there are many ways in which people are trying to promote sailing and different views on what works best. Would love to come and race with you regardless as to whether there is prize money or not. Are you able to race mid week? It is difficult for me to get there on a weekend. I don't expect to be able to get close to you on the course, however it can still show how your boat performs. I for one am quite interested to see how your new boat performs. In standard trim I am not able to compete against the standard Paper Tigers, they are quite fast. The best I was able to do was to win one of the races on yardstick in the Mannering Park 14 regatta. Would you still be willing to race or do you prefer to race only a highly modified or full F14? ZAX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl J Barrett Posted March 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 CS, It’s OUR Alpha F14 that is out of its development stage!! not F14's in general this is not a claim, but a statement of fact. All new designs have to go through a development stage and we have finished going through ours with the Alpha 14', I don't see how I could have been more explicit than that, if we get "hung up" on semantics then we are going to get no where! If you looked at the yardstick for the Alpha and used a little arithmetic, you would have seen that at a VYC of 84, we were required to sail with the "faster" cats in their division, starting 10 minutes behind all the other 14'cats, even then if you take the elapsed time over the same course that the Alpha and all the 14’ cats sailed, the Alpha finished, some twenty nine and a half minutes faster than the fastest of all the other 14' cats (that being an Arrow). It wasn't our decision to sail with the 16' cats and Yvonne's etc, that was the decision of the race committee. And my “comprehension” is that you “CLAIM” that “It so happens however that a couple of us are already a fair way down the track of having a 14 footer to take you on” as well as the rather large “CLAIM” that “I could even have a crack at you with my standard class legal 14 I'm sure I could put up a good fight” There are photos posted on the net of the Alpha, if you go to the following link http://www.catsailor.com/gallery/ and look at the “User galleries” you can see them. ZAX, We would be only too pleased to sail against ANY cat, and I am sure that a “twilight” weekday sail could easily be arranged. There is always Easter coming up and we will be sailing at Milang. They have races over the full weekend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAX Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Daryl, Over Easter we have the NSW maricat state titles at Toukley and the AGM for the association so will be tied up with that. I can come and see you after Easter and arrange some time that suits for a twilight race. Hope your new boat performs well at Milang. cheers ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl J Barrett Posted March 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Just give us a yell ZAX or better still email me then I'll see what we can do to help you over here. Pity about Milang, it really is a great place to sail and I believe that there are 6 races spread from the Saturday to the Monday am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_taipan117 Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Originally posted by Darryl J Barrett: Just give us a yell ZAX or better still email me then I'll see what we can do to help you over here. Pity about Milang, it really is a great place to sail and I believe that there are 6 races spread from the Saturday to the Monday am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_taipan117 Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 I am afraid I don't follow CS's (who ever this character is) logic. I'd suggest there is only one goose on this forum at present. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAX Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 I have sent an email now to you for details there. Just posting the content to keep the forum updated. Atleast I think I am the first to take up your challenge.. might prompt a few more to do the same. Would be good to see how your boat performs against the various classes and could also help to come up with an appropriate yardstick for F14? "Darryl, I will come over to Adelaide during the week after Easter. First I would like to just take a look at Adelaide Sailing club or where you prefer to sail and come and say hello. I would arrange to bring my boat over after that at a time that is suitable for both. really keen to see your new boat. I don't expect to be a serious challenge for line honours against the new F14 but at least my own boat is a known benchmark with which to gauge your new boat against. looking forward to meet you and see the new 14. How am I best to contact you there? cheers, " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HooD Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Darryl are you sailing the AO F14 with kite as the rules allow? I was thinking the F14 would be competeative with alight crew, jib and spin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl J Barrett Posted March 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 ZAX, If you are coming firstly without your cat you can at least have your own "test sail" on the Alpha, I can guarantee that it will be an experience that will make the trip worth while for you. The Adelaide Sailing Club has to be one of the best facilities to sail at in Australia. I think that anyone who has sailed there will verify that, it's a real joy both on the water and off, and the sailing at MIlang, although totally different, offers the type of sailing that makes most who sail there come back over and over again. Hi HOOD, Yes we are now using the kite and it handles very sweetly. Sailed as, predominately, one up on trapeze, cat rigged with the kite. When you sail a 14' cat designed this way you would swear that 14' cats should always have been this way, it just feels "right". We found that by setting up the spinnaker so that the sheet lines came off of turning ratchet blocks on the outside of the rear beam, the helm stays the same with the kite up or down, and with this set up the tack of the kite is only just in front of the bows, and it is attached with a short "strop” to the end of the pole so that, unlike the F16's and F18's we don’t have to set up another set of fittings to pull the tack of the kite to the end of the pole when setting it, and release it to "chute" the kite back into the spinnaker chute. These two things keep the same amount of spinnaker halyard on the deck with the kite either up or down and the spinnaker sheet stays tucked along the inside of the rear beam. All in all there is only a very little more on the deck than there would be without a kite, and the layout, when sailing stays very clean and organised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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