Spi for 430/F14

[berny]

Being made by Geoff Adams as we speak, finally. Should be ready by the end of the week. I'm getting a slightly fuller kite for deeper angles so I'll be looking for windward / leeward's next season. I have the next four months to set it up and get used to sailing with it. I actually built a scale set-up to check dimensions etc. I've also got a new design concept for the pole and snuffer I'm working on. More on that later.

Anyone interested, I'll keep you posted.

I also have some spare bits which may be of interest to someone thinking about or building an F14. There's a mast, a sail, a rear beam, and a boom. This is some residual stuff from the development of the 430. Price can be negotiated but I'm not looking for big $$$$. Anyone interested can PM me.

[macca]

You might find that a fuller kite is actually slower downwind than a flat one. In the years of kite development that the tornado has gone through we have ended up with quite flat chutes and in all conditions we are faster then the fuller ones.

I would have gone with someone who has recent expeience making kites for cats but I am sure Geoff will do a good job.

[berny]

Thanks macca, I went with Geoff because he has done some recent sails for Darryl Barrett which look pretty good in the vids. There really isn't a lot of difference in the two spi's. Both are flat, but one is just a little flatter than the other which I thought initially might give me an edge on triangular courses which I'm anticipating sailing early on against other 14's.

Then I reasoned that I'll probably be sailing against bigger cats on windward / leeward's and the slightly larger / fuller sail should work a little better there.

Bit of a gamble but I'm still going to be the quickest 14ftr on the east coast of Australia either way. I'm hoping to get the boat to Woolarah the week after next.

[Darryl J Barrett]

I know that you have a strong fondness for the simplicity and purety of sailing just cat rigged Berny but believe me, when you get the kite sorted out you are going to just love it and regret all the years that you missed out on sailing without one. Sailing one up with a kite is the most "personal" feeling of joy that I have ever experienced sailing.

Darryl

[NickS]

I am definitely interested in how you are going to set up the spin on your boat. I have an old Windrush which I'd like to experiment with and prefer the idea of a snuffer rather than furling. As an aside I think your 430 looks fantastic, unfortunately don't have the cash to get something similar, may have to settle for making an Arrow or something similar in plywood.

[This message has been edited by NickS (edited 03 May 2006).]

[berny]

I now have my new kite and I'm now working on setting it up. I've got most stuff sorted but I need a snuffer ring. I've elected to use a standard pole arrangement with port snuffer ring and bag under for the time being just to get the boat on the water. The kite is just on 10msq so a small ring about 200mm dia would suffice. What are my options for a. having one made. b. finding a used one in someone's junk box. c. buying a new. d. making my own or, e. something else I haven't thought of.

I'm working on a design which incorporates the snuffer ring in the pole but it's a while off and I'm keen to go sailing

Any help will be much appreciated.

Bern

[MikeDean]

Berny,

Hi. I am wondering whether I should try experimenting with a spi for a "standard" 14 foot cat - so I have a few questions for you - How much money do you think the whole setup will cost you roughly)? What dimensions is the spi for your cat? What are the key issues for sizing a spi for retrofitting one to a 14 foot cat that doesnt have a "standard" setup for one.

My questions are mainly about starting the "experimentation" process as far down the track as I could.

regards

Mike

[berny]

Hi Mike. Mate it depends a lot on how handy you are and what equipment / materials you have at your disposal and if you intend going all new or retro with the kite and gear. I looked at both new and s/h and elected for new but there are other options. Plenty of 14/15/16ft sailboats have kites and a s/h unit would be your cheapest option. Most mono kites are probably cut too full for a cat but there are flatter kites out there which, although not being optimal, would suffice. A pole will cost you about $80, snuffer $300 odd, ropes and rigging, blocks etc, between $100 and $400 depending on which way you go.

I guess that to answer your first question, it could be done for as little as say $300/500 or as much as $2000+.

Sizing is dependant on the boat and how you plan to sail it with the kite but a spi in the range of 10msq seems to be about right for a single handed 14, on windward / leewards or the 'fatter' legs of a triangular course. But again, if you don't mind going deeper on leeward legs a bigger, fuller sail can be made to go well. Two up you might handle a bigger spi.

In short it depends really on what you want to do. I can help you along the way if you decide to have some fun and go kiting

Bern

[This message has been edited by berny (edited 08 May 2006).]

[MikeDean]

Berny,

Cheers and thanks for the advice. I am interested enough just to give it a try. Maybe it can be my off season project - as long as the home job list also gets some attention.

But now I've got a couple of other questions;

1) What is the consensus view on mid pole snuffer versus end of pole snuffer (which is preferred for a 14 foot cat?)

2) Which are you heading towards ( I notice the advice/link on the other list for the same topic, someone gave you, the Tornado snuffer was a mid pole unit).

3) What is the difference in the required control lines for the end of pole versus mid pole.

regards

Mike

[berny]

Picked up my snuffer mouth/throat/schute/trumpet, whatever? last night. Got one of Dave Hart's. It needs some work but I'll have it finished and fitted to the pole by the w/end. At first I thought it might be too big but thinking on it, a bunched kite with three patches is going to be about the same diameter at the bunch regardless of the overall size of the sail. A bigger sail will only be longer going into the snuffer rather than bigger around so I think it'll be fine. Gotta make some bushing for it to fit my 32mm pole.

Mike, the length of the spi when it's gathered by the retrieval line determines where the throat fixes to the pole, that and how much sail will be under the tramp in the sock if any. Mine measures 1.8m gathered which with a 3m pole means my throat is 1.2m from the outer end of the pole with nothing under the tramp.

Here's a handy link;

http://home.vicnet.net.au/~mosquito/sp_rigging.htm

[This message has been edited by berny (edited 14 May 2006).]

[berny]

Got one of these;

http://www.users.tpg.com.au/davehart/Tornado/

What's the best way to fix the ring to the pole? I'm thinking a couple or three 5mm pop rivets along the bottom. Sound Ok?

[This message has been edited by berny (edited 18 May 2006).]

[macca]

a couple of rivets will work fine, just make sure they are not protuding into the pole too much if you are running the tack line through the pole.

[NickS]

For those like myself that want to reduce the trial and error of adding a spinnaker to a catamaran, there is a good description of how one bloke set one up and what is required on the Mosquito website. http://home.vicnet.net.au/~mosquito/sp_rigging.htm

[berny]

Well finally the spi is up and running. I sailed with it yesterday in very light conditions and so far I like it.

It's different sailing and I have a lot of things to get used to but first impressions are good and the boat seems to go very well as I expected it would considering the talent of the bloke who designed and built it ha ha.

Hoisting and lowering were a bit hit and miss. If I get it all right, it goes up and down without a hitch but there does seem to be some traps which I need to come to grips such as tangles, or not being on quite the right heading etc., which will cause it to hang up, and plus other dumb stuff like not releasing the sheet from the cleat. I pulled the eyelet out of the tramp in one of my frenzied attempts to dowse the thing before I ran out of water, (Concord) which is being fixed today. I think I need a small turning block under the tramp.

I need to sail as much as I can now to become familiar with the processes and to sort out a few minor details. If the wind isn't too strong next Satdy, (I doubt I could handle anything heavier than about 10 knots yet), and I can get some more time on the water before then, I'll come down to Woollarah and see how it goes amongst other boats, (crash and burn)?

Thanks for the help guys, much apreciated.

Oh, and the 430 is probably now the fastest 14ft (4.3m) cat in the world.

[This message has been edited by berny (edited 22 May 2006).]

[Darryl J Barrett]

Take a little time to "sort it all out" Berny then look for a good three day regatta and we will look at coming up there to have a bit of a sail with you, or perhaps something in between (unless petrol suddenly comes down in price)

Darryl

[berny]

Sounds good Darryl.

[tornado]

Good to here it progressing along well berny.

Also don't forget about the Brass Monkey Regatta at Tugerah Lakes Memorial Sailing Club. Spinnaker cats will be out in force along with plenty of other cats and monos.

@ Wolloahra this week we had a Hydrofoil A Class come down and join us. Unfortunatly for him it did not blow the 15 plus knots I believe it would take to get it foil borne as it is a very old A and is probably closer to the weihgt of my F18 than it is to an A class.

Next weekend will be the week that most sailiors are focusing on coming down. Should be

3 x Tornado

5 x A Class

7 x F18

Hope you can make it also.

[berny]

Originally posted by macca:

a couple of rivets will work fine, just make sure they are not protuding into the pole too much if you are running the tack line through the pole.

I'd like to put the tackline inside the pole but I use the halyard to pull the tackline to make the kite which means I'd need to thread it somehow inside the pole when rigging the boat. I can't see how that would work. Any suggestions??

[tornado]

Are you planning to go down to Woollahra this Saturday. I am planning to go down as a spectator only (unless someone needs crew) as I have de-beamed my boat and refitting a newer, beefed up front beam. Am also fitting all the hardwear for a seperate tackline set up. I will be able to swap between the 2 systems when ever I wish.

If you like, I can spend a lot more time with you next Saturday and run through some ideas.

[berny]

If it's going to be light I'll be there.

Tell us how you're 'beefing up' the front beam.

[This message has been edited by berny (edited 15 June 2006).]

[Bridgehugger]

Berny can you tell me what your boats rating is?

[darcy1945]

Tugerah Lakes Memoril S/C now defunct, Brass Monkey now at Toukley (10k further north), would enjoy seeing the F14s will definately have a large fleet of mixed 14s plus all the assorted big cats. Ph Danny, 43936689, or Darcy 43591729, for details.

[berny]

Originally posted by Bridgehugger:

Berny can you tell me what your boats rating is?

A bit early yet with not much race history with the kite but I'm guessing low 80's sailed well. We'll see this summer coming as I've done some significant work on rudders and boards, [new] and I'll be more familiar with kite sailing although it could do with a new main.

[Darryl J Barrett]

Berny, both Antony and Emile were quite impressed with your 430 with spinnaker and its potential, when you all sailed together, to the point that they both feel that your cat has the full potential to sail right up to the F14 yardstick (possibly faster), all it needs is a lot more time on the race course (and preferably something similar to compete with)

Keep the faith Berny and perhaps we can beat this false feeling amongst a lot of sailers that "bigger is better" (which WE know is a fallacy)

[berny]

Thanks Daz, yes I think the boat has good potential with a good skipper at the helm and I just may not be too old yet.

The new rudders and boards will help, being lighter and leakproof. I've also found a source of water ingress in the port hull which to date has eluded previous envestigations.

Mate, all my experience with kite sailing has been on big boats and there the main is eased to reduce pressure and I'm thinking it might be a better way to sail the 430, i.e., cleat the spi and work the mainsheet and tiller. It sounds scary but I think it should work if handled correctly. I'm gunna try it anyway.