sando Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 Any interest in a 14' Cat travellers series in NSW next season? Possible regattas 1/ Mannering Park 14' regatta early October 2/ Kembla Klassic PKSC Late November 3/ Something Sydney Metro - Ryde/Kurnell Late January 4/ 14' Regatta Koonawarra second weekend in February 5/ Lake Wallagoot March 6/ Tookley April 4 of 6 to count, A&B divisions Koonawarra Bay yardstick. I know the Maricats did this for a number of seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyquoll Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 lovin that you included Wallagoot! Usually 2nd weekend in March. Having a great turn-up at this year's regatta proved inspiring to those watching, and 2 more cats have come to the club, although they are total beginners not yet completed a race. We now have 3 Maricats, 3 Windrush, 3 Paper Tigers, 1 A-class, 1 Nacra 5.0, and 1 Nacra 14sq, although 3 to 5 boats might turn up on a typical weekend. For 3/ I'd also consider the Palm Beach Club, if they run anything; http://www.pbsc.org.au/ seems to be a "Beware of the Bullets" regatta, mid-Nov, includes F18 State Titles - KCC list an Australia Day Regatta / Marathon. Results show 14 starters, 10 boats finished a 2 1/2 to 3 hr race, with all 14' cats DNF. What's that all about? 6/ Toukley; Brass Monkey Regatta 11-13 Jun 2011 The Paper Tiger NSW State Pointscore (traveler series) also includes; - YMCA's Multihull Champs late October, Canberra - this year added Batemans Bay Anzac Regatta, my favourite of the year, although not many attended Personally I like it when all the 14' cats race together, rather than splitting some off into a different division, and think this idea for a series is a ripper! Please can it include the Nacra 14sq? At 4.5m long, yardstick 84.5, the reality is they race well with us. Dad sails one and I love it when we get to race each other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TornadoSport260 Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 Love the idea. Palm Beach isnt really a 14ft club. KCC or Ryde are, my choice would be KCC. KCC for the Australia day marathon isn't right thought its a VERY long course and its only 1 race not several so the results are not evened out for consistency, it can also be a very long day so not good for those travelling. Reason for 14ft cats DNF, I sailed Rohans old boat with old gear and had my gf skippering (we decided a beer stop at my place was more important than the course because of the lack of wind), Antony ripped the boom strop off his main and I thought Rohan finished? The 14Sq isnt a 14ft boat so really including it in a 14ft series I don't think is right. But if push came to shove i really dont care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Planet Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 I did finish.. and am quite peeved at the DNF... I made sure I finished the course... but who knows maybe I didn't finish between the correct finishing marks? Nobody told me that I'd done anything silly - but I wouldn't put it past me - I am very casual when it comes to racing... But hey, cat sailing is for fun - so I won't pursue it... The thing about KCC is that there are no 'regulars' sailing 14s down there - occasionally they get a couple of Maricats - and that's it... They even took the Windrush flag off their string of flags outside the clubhouse - which is pretty sad... That's Y I'm trying to get their juniors on a W14 - and am willing to provide them with my old boat (which is still in good nick) - to use for training... As far as getting more Windrush 14s to Sydney regattas is concerned - absolutely - that's where we are most visible - so it only makes sense... I agree with Michael, the Nacra 14sq is a centre-board cat - different concept - but like Michael, if they wanna join... I have no problems with that, we may even convert a couple back to true 14ft sailing.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyquoll Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 the Paper Tiger is a centre-board cat too. Because there are very few Nacra 14sq, they dont get to race in State or National titles, and at regattas are faced with either being slowest of the big cats, or (theoretically) quickest of the small cats. In reality Dad on his Nacra14sq versus me on PT2901 "Tigerdelic" have great races for line honours. While my PT is the best boat for me, I can see the advantages of simpler, more durable boats for others, and in Dad's case the speed and comfort of the Nacra. I encourage everyone to sail, on whatever boat takes their fancy. Once we have good fleets on the water, THEN we can have great contests between classes! That's the appeal of the 14' traveller series; including more people on more different boats, and racing to see who is outright fastest, and who is the best with yardstick considered. Even there, my favourite races this season were close mid-fleet battles rather than sailing around out front on my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sando Posted April 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 Like Wallagoot, PKSC also has a 14Sq sailing on yardstick with the true 14' fleet. In fact he won the scratch club championship on yardstick this season. In the 5-12kt wind range they are very hard to beat on yardstick, but at 15 to 20kts there is little difference. Happy to include if the traveller series gets a run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sando Posted April 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Here are some tentative dates of regattas 1/ Mannering Park 14' regatta early 8 & 9 October 2/ Kembla Klassic PKSC Late 27 & 28 November 3/ Kurnell Cat Club Australia Day - to be negotiated with club 4/ 14' Regatta Koonawarra 11 & 12 February 5/ Lake Wallagoot 10 & 11 March 6/ Tookley 14 & 15 April 4 of 6 regattas to count, A&B divisions Koonawarra Bay yardstick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Planet Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 Hey Sando, That's all good - my only concern is that as far as Windrush goes, we need to schedule a couple of extra events (possibly up to 3 events) - so, playing the odds, we were assured of at least one day of good weather – in Sydney – where we get as many boats as possible on the beach - and publicise it as an 'event' - so that interested parties can see the class well represented... We could even get other classes involved - and advertise it as an 'Intro to Catamaran Sailing Day' - or something similar... I believe that unless this kind of re-building approach is taken, then we will always be struggling to get decent numbers back into the 14's... What do others think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sando Posted April 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 Knock you socks off Rohan, but I can only afford to travel one weekend a month over the season. By all means suggest some dates for a couple of Windrush rallies - but I think there are enough regattas at 6. Have you given any thought to the insurance issue of such promo events that M raised a little time ago? Even when I organise the Try Sailing Day under the BIA and Yachting NSW - they insist that the club has $10m public liability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyquoll Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 Prize pool; $20 entry, winner takes the lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TornadoSport260 Posted April 25, 2011 Report Share Posted April 25, 2011 As Tony (aka Sando) suggests, I won't make any more regattas than the travellers series. Add in that I am juggling cat sailing with prep for Hobart. As also asked how would you get around the insurance issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Planet Posted April 25, 2011 Report Share Posted April 25, 2011 OK, but regattas probably aren't the best way to promote the class, because every1's too preoccupied with the racing...? However, for 1 day regattas, maybe we could organise a day prior to the main event? As far as insurance goes, I'm sure we could get people to sign a waiver before they came out on a boat? Not having explored the insurance issue, I'm only assuming this would absolve the NSW Windrush Association of any liability - but if anyone cares to comment or knows what the bottom line is, pleez let me know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korwich Posted April 25, 2011 Report Share Posted April 25, 2011 A waiver may protect you personally but I am doubtfull of this, how many times have you heard a damages waiver is'nt even worth the paper it is written on, but what happens if one of the competitors, crashes into a boat owned by a member of the public, spectators fisherman etc and injures or kills someone in that boat, I suppose we let the widdows and orphans sort that out in court, because they will go not only for the sailor concerned but for the organisers as well. Does the Windrush Assoc carry Liability Insurance, I know the Maricat Assoc does as it is sending us slowly broke. I'd be keen for a 14 foot travellers series just as much as the next bloke, but these problems need ironing out beforehand. There is some talk going around of an association being able to be a member of YA and so coming under their insurance umbrella, one of our guys was supposed to be checking it out. Just my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyquoll Posted April 25, 2011 Report Share Posted April 25, 2011 It's usually a requirement of entering a regatta that: - you are a member of YA, which includes personal insurance - your boat is insured with $millions public liability cover When I take people out for joy rides, I'm confident that me, my boat, the people on it and anything we crash into are all covered. Club Insurance is for when The Great Bunyip rises out of the lake and eats all the boats; and it's the club's fault for sending us out there. The Boating Industry Association of NSW: Ph: 02 9438 2077, info@bia.org.au , provided an "Operations Manual" for Try Sailing Day which would be useful for anyone seeking to organise a promotional sailing event. In it they recommend all Clubs have "Masterman" $10mil insurance cover. The Registration Form which participants sign includes an Indemnity clause, releasing all organisers from any claims that may be made. When attempting to organise "the Mallacoota Adventure Challenge", on Mallacoota's Lakes where there is no sailing club, I found that we needed a Waterways Event Permit from Maritime Vic., which required us to have a club with insurance, which was going to cost $thousands... so the event which was going to raise money to form the club was prevented by us not having a club. The grants available to support sporting events also not available, unless you're a club. Based on that experience; much easier to work with existing clubs and have them host events for the informal 14' Cat Association. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Planet Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 Hi guys, when entering regattas, you must have public liability insurance with (I believe) minimum 5 million bucks of cover - and sometimes double that will be required - but that's not what I'm really concerned about. The concern is at events organised by the associations or individuals - where inexperienced participants may be injured. Personally, I think it's an interesting debate - should I now be wary of taking anyone out for a joy-ride on my boat? Surely, my comprehensive insurance covers me for the possibility that my 'crew' may be injured? If that's the case, if I were to 'informally' organise a try sailing day / Windrush Rallye - that wasn't necessarily under the auspices of the Windrush Association, but where association members were present but not 'officially' involved – then that absolves the association of any responsibility? Of course, I see the problem with that, in that the support/blessing of the association is important... so yes it's a dilemma... The Traveler's Circuit proposed for next season isn't a problem as far as I can see, and as the rightly pointed out, each boat must have its own insurance, and the host club takes care of the rest... BTW, I don't believe it's compulsory for individuals 2b members of the YA... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyquoll Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 YA membership and joyriding covered in my post above. In order to covered by any organisations insurance, the event must be minuted: a written record confirming the organisation's official approval. Without that, the organisation would not be liable and the event not insured. "An aquatic licence is required by any person or organisation conducting, promoting or organising a race, competition or exhibition or any other activity which restricts the availability of navigable waters for normal use by the public": http://www.maritime.nsw.gov.au/aquatic_licence.html It could be argued that an event taking small numbers of people out sailing does not restrict availablity of water by the public; rather, it encourages it. But why not just work with existing clubs, and the annual Try Sailing Day event? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Planet Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 Hi Tony, I've never been asked to provide YA membership at a regatta - R U sure this is a requirement? I guess I've been out of things for a few years.. but at the last Windrush State Titles – where I really just made up the numbers – hopelessly uncompetitive - the question wasn't even raised... OK, the 'restricting availability' of a waterway could be something we could work with... as a small group of cats on the beach (up to 10 maybe) and a dozen or so interested 'candidates' could never be interpreted as restricting availability... The problem with working with existing clubs is that once again, the focus is on racing - and it seems to me after only a short time back in the game, that putting on special events isn't a priority... If I could find a club wiling to really try to increase awareness of 14ft catamaran racing, and that club was somewhere central.... and would additionally be willing to help publicise and cover the event, then 'bingo'... Thing is – the focus is now on F18 - not the classes that newbies and/or those wanting a simple alternative can access... If we're talking Windrush - which is clearly my target, then there are ZERO clubs in Sydney sailing them... Concorde-Ryde is Maricats, Kurnell is, well, nothing, and Palm Beach is Hobie-centric... That's Y we as an association need to think outside the existing framework - now I understand this isn't the Windrush forum, but the post was started by a Windy sailor... If 14ft cat sailing – in general – is to get better exposure, then we (IMHO) need to do something different occasionally, as the regattas don't appear to be the answer... and are really there for the already converted / existing group of racers – am I wrong? Maybe we ought to promote and publicise regattas as an event where the various classes are available for inspection and set aside some time at each event 'just for the public'...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyquoll Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 Yes, YA membership required at some regattas; not sure from memory which of the proposed traveler series this includes. The Notice of Race usually says if it will be required, and the Entry Form asks for the YA membership number. At the Vic Cat Champs Paynesville Yacht Club went all the way, demanding YA number and boat insurance numbers, saying "it's a standard Yachting Victoria form". Port Kembla require the boat insurance but dont mention YA. Other events requiring YA membership include: - ACT Multi-hull Championship (YMCA of Canberra Sailing Club), late October - Wallagoot Lake Regatta (WLBC), mid-March - Batemans Bay Anzac Regatta (BBSC), mid-late April - Sauna Sail (LaTrobe Valley Yacht Club), mid-June Dad sails at a small non-YA affiliated club, and in order to be able to enter regattas, he joined Wallagoot to get his silver card. Possibly the cheapest in NSW, WLBC offers membership for $50 + $50 YA Silver Card. See: http://thebegavalley.org.au/21508.html I suggest there are two separate goals here: - getting new people to take up sailing - getting people with boats to enter events At Try Sailing Day at quiet, rural Wallagoot Lake, we had 60 punters turn up to try sailing, despite 20-25 knot winds! We went ahead, offering rides on a variety of boats. This was followed up with a sailing school, 3 consecutive Saturdays in January. This season we have 5 new sailors and 3 additional boats because of this effort. It would be great to see you & Koonawarra Bay SC run similar events for mutual benefit. http://www.koonawarrabaysc.org.au/ The 14' Cat Traveller Series would seem a good way to encourage people to enter more of these events. Hopefully the club locals see a bunch of us rock up, have great races and good times, then want to join in. However, locals at Wallagoot remain convinced they are not good enough to enter regattas; not even contesting the home event and not planning to travel to race. Hard to see how to overcome this. While I try to offer helpful tips when appropriate, as in this forum, it can make one as popular as the inventor of the golden Infinite Improbability generator. "Just after he was awarded the Galactic Institute's Prize for Extreme Cleverness he was lynched by a rampaging mob of respectable physicists who had realized that one thing they couldn't stand was a smart-ass" (D. Adams, Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TornadoSport260 Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 Rohan, YA membership is compulsory at basically every regatta. Whether it is asked on the entry form or not. It is as Tony suggests in the NOR under elegibility. Your post also does little to address the insurance issue. Joining in at 'try sailing days' run by clubs is a much smarter way than trying to run our own. Because we can get away with using the clubs insurance. Unless you wish to run the event under your business and hence under the public liability insurance your business has. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Planet Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 All good feedback... OK, looks like I'll have2 join the YA - in order to participate at any event I care to attend... but if that's the case, isn't it just another obstacle/expense to bear? And another reason for others to not attend? My home club will stay KCC - even though it's a casual relationship with them - as I see no attempt to actively promote 14's... so the juniors are the only real hope to get starters back on 14's there – at least for the short-term – so a traveller I guess I'll be... A couple of questions - how did you manage to get 60 to your Try Sailing Day? What promotional methods were employed and how long were the promotional activities running prior to the event? I assume that WLBC insured the event? I really like the follow-up effort employed - and it obviously worked to get a few new bums on boats... Now a couple of observations... maybe if regattas were less 'full-on' competitive racing, then more would attend? I know for myself, I have enough stress day-to-day, so if I attend an event where I have to arrive at 8.00 in the morning after a 2 to 4 hour drive, and then race twice back-to back and then 3 races on the second day, it may seem like too much, and too hard? Maybe that's Y your guys at Wallagoot feel a little intimidated by regattas? These are the kinds of questions we need to ask ourselves - and of course cat sailing is competing with a lot more and new activities these days - kiteboarding for example could be seen as a direct competitor... simple and fun - so that's how we need to promote our activity if we hope to attract more candidates... once again IMHO the 'serious' competitive nature of sailing is something people naturally gravitate to once they get sick of just blasting up and down the bay... but to try to promote the activity through 'serious' regattas isn't the most effective means? Once again, playing devil's advocate here - and putting some questions out there... I guess what I'm asking is:- Is there a way to bring more of the 'fun' and learning element to at least some regattas, instead of the hard-nosed racing focus? PS I never read HGTTG... and was never a Doctor Who fan either... maybe that's why I'm such a pain in the ass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Planet Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 Rohan, YA membership is compulsory at basically every regatta. Whether it is asked on the entry form or not. It is as Tony suggests in the NOR under elegibility. Your post also does little to address the insurance issue. Joining in at 'try sailing days' run by clubs is a much smarter way than trying to run our own. Because we can get away with using the clubs insurance. Unless you wish to run the event under your business and hence under the public liability insurance your business has. Michael Hi Michael, if I were to run an event under Lift King's public liability insurance, I'm sure the policy would have to be renegotiated... at probably substantially increased expense... So, OK, if the NSW Windrush Association can't be involved either, then we're compelled to get a club – or clubs – involved... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Planet Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 Of course, this is now getting away from the original intention of the thread... so maybe we should start a new thread on how to best promote 14ft cat sailing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TornadoSport260 Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 All good feedback... OK' date=' looks like I'll have2 join the YA - in order to participate at any event I care to attend... but if that's the case, isn't it just another obstacle/expense to bear? And another reason for others to [i']not attend? Seriously its $50 on top of club membership its not an arm or leg... Now a couple of observations... maybe if regattas were less 'full-on' competitive racing' date=' then more would attend? I know for myself, I have enough stress day-to-day, so if I attend an event where I have to arrive at 8.00 in the morning after a 2 to 4 hour drive, and then race twice back-to back and then 3 races on the second day, it may seem like too much, and too hard? [/quote'] If regatta's are less 'full-on' competitive, i won't attend. I think some are too casual and we could fit more racing in. If i go to the effort of spending the money to attend, I want to do as much racing as possible. Also being that you are the NSW Windrush dealer should your public liability insurance not cover demo's already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Planet Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 Personally, I have no probs with $50 extra, BUT I do see how many people will... It seems the other way to get more participants on the water is to refurbish old boats - at minimal expense - right? To then hit them with compulsory membership to an organisation that would on the surface be foreign to them... for the privilege of attending a few regattas each year... it's not the money so much as the compulsory nature of it... And again, personally, I have no problem with a full-on race program... but if every regatta is gonna be like that, then surely we should also have 1 or 2 'fun' events to help attract newbies? I think this is the dilemma: - If we're gonna be hard-nosed racers only focused on winning, then we somehow need to balance that with some events that aren't intimidating to the 'average' sailor... in order to at least entice them to compete... when they do get the competitive racing 'bug'... PS Lift King's Public Liability Insurance covers us for the hoists, and related work practices - I doubt that it would cover us for catamaran demos... but I'll look into it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyquoll Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 The club & YA membership cost is equal to other sports, for example a racing mountain bike costs $4k, local club + national body fee $100. Promo for Try Sailing included: weekly newspaper articles all season, posters on notice boards, word of mouth, and the winner: huge signs on main roads saying "FREE SAILING THIS SATURDAY -->" supplied by BIA for the event with some modifications. BIA even gave us free life jackets. Insurance seemed to be covered in duplicity, by BIA, the WLBC and each boat's insurance. Despite the extreme conditions there was only minor gear failure and no claims. When travelling to regattas, I tow 2 boats, take a mate with me and meet Dad there to share a cabin. This share arrangement encourages all of us to attend. We stay over friday night for a no-stress rig up sat morning, and usually head home after presentation on sunday arvo. All good. At Batemans Bay the complaint was reverse of what you say; 2 short races each day wasn't enough racing! It's great when there's a social function on the saturday night, but often it's the sailors all going to the same club/restaurant with club BBQs poorly attended. The intimidation factor; no answers, and cant really comment on locals without getting into more trouble. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.