NACRAJON Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Thinking of changing classes to a Taipan 4.9 or F16 at the end of the 2010 sailing season. It’s a way off but I am interested in working through the options. Currently sailing a NACRA 4.5 to a reasonable level after 1yr of sailing but have not yet mastered the boat. My plan is to race the 4.5 over the next season and gain proficiency with the spinnaker single handed. If at the end of the season I can regularly pick up placings it will be a signal to move up classes. I move around Aust for work regularly therefore it isn’t as simple as finding a local club and joining whatever fleet they race. So I require a boat that is a bit of an all rounder. Replacement boat must haves. 1. raced single or double handed 2. able to be rigged and dragged up a soft beach on beach wheels by one person 3. able buy a good quality boat for $12,000 4. composite hulls - no wood (personal opinion only) 5. established class in Australia 6. able to go for weekend camping trips up the coast, two up F16 or Taipan 4.9 - meet must haves 1-5 (F16 No. 3?), dubious about No. 6 Pro’s F16 or Taipan 4.9 - Seems to be at least one 4.9 at most clubs so generally will have someone to race against. - Two F16’s at current club, seems to be a slowly growing class - F16 able to be raced against F18 - 4.9 is able to be raced as one design and in F16 as a tier two boat Cons’s F16 or Taipan 4.9 - Ferrari like boats, 4.9 have reputation for being fragile and of limited lifespan (assumed to be case for F16 also) - F16 is a limited development class, don’t have money to buy a class leader or be competitive - Increased rigging time over 4.5 - Not as family friendly - High aspect ratio dagger board boats have to treated with more respect on where you can sail them. - Both boats would require a steep learning curve after the 4.5 Other single handed boats Hobie 17 good tough all rounder (heavy), wings are bonus for family but it has a high vardstick. No great advantage over 4.5 Spi boat. 16sq isn’t able to be rigged single handed, sweeper sail not family or camping friendly. No large classes in southern states, but NACRA blokes are a good bunch and it is a tough boat. Glass hull Mosquito. Don’t know enough about these, but they don’t appear to be much quicker than a Spi equipped 4.5 4.5 meets requirements 1-6, but too slow to keep up with the bigger boats (especially with 2 adults on board), generally placed in a lower division sometimes with shorter less challenging courses. Sick of being blown away by 5.8’s, Hobie 20’s etc. Has advantage of being tough, forgiving and be able to put in a good performance on yardstick without requiring an exceptional sailor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
becjm Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Hey Nacrajon I have a mozzie (boyer built kevlar) and I find this boat meets all MY needs when sailed well by a good sailor they can give the F16 a run for there money . Actually Gary(raced the blade f16) has sold it and is raceing a mozzie now.Sauna sail in vic has 17 mozzies entred there are going to be 3-4 mozzies raceing at the brass monkey toukley. In light (5-12knots)I have beaten 5.8s H18s ect accross the line what im getting at is the mozzie is a great boat. However this is also true about 4.9 s and all the rest of the cats out there. If you can try sailing a few different cats. If you want a sail on a good mozzie let me know im in Sydney. Good luck with the cat hunt. http://www.ecmca.diabologic.info/ Cheers Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchlb44 Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 I think your right about a sound f16 for 12,000... might be a stretch. I don't think the taipans have a limited lifespan, I am a member at PMYC who have a very large fleet of taipans and the older boats perform very competitively! I think the camping thing is a pipe dream! if you want to go camping then by a tinnie! Hope my personal opinions are of use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Danny has his up for grabs, I was going to buy it, but it is a little above my ability. For Sale December 1, 2008 Taipan 4.9 Cat F16, AUS332 Timber Hulls, Glass and kevlar construction. This is a Taipan F16 (Please Note, this boat is at F16 Width) 1 year old, hit water first time November 2007, comes with Brewin Kevlar main sail, Spinnaker kit, Beach rollers and Dotan kick up rudders. Spare tramp(grey) Boat is set up Cat rig (for 1 person) would like to sell without trailer. If you want trailer can be neg. Boat has done to date 12 races only. The boat is a sister ship to 153 and 155 (Both National Champs) All 3 built by Darren Peters and James Sage. Reason for sale Have lost all interest and need some time away from the sport. Email me for Photo's. $12,000 ono Adelaide. New boat around $18000.00 Contact: Danny James Email: jdanny@internode.on.net Mob: 0414956364 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
becjm Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Here Are some recent results from vic http://www.yachting.org.au/site/yachting/results/pmyc/2008/club/db/SGrp6.htm And south aust Rum race www.vhyc.org.au/Results/rumrace09.htm There were lots of f16s and 4.9s raceing. Note the finish time across the line in the rum race Darren on bullet is a good salior. Mosquitos are very popular in vic&sa. The Mozzies use the catsalor.com forum with the F16s http://www.catsailor.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=22&page=1 Thats why I think all in the northern states think they are dead all you need to know about the mozzies is in there. Cheers Ben ps The Nats for the mozzie's are being held at Mannering Park NSW. [This message has been edited by becjm (edited 29 May 2009).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornado Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Originally posted by NACRAJON: Cons’s F16 or Taipan 4.9 - Ferrari like boats, 4.9 have reputation for being fragile and of limited lifespan The oposite infact. The 4.9 has one of the best life spans of cats out there. Particularly the kevlar skin boats. Originally posted by NACRAJON: - High aspect ratio dagger board boats have to treated with more respect on where you can sail them. 4.9 has very low aspect boards for a c/board cat. If you race it with a kite, you would not even bother lifting boards when you round the top mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Danny's boat, seriously consider this one, possibly one of the best buys in OZ... http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Taipan-F16-Catamaran_W0QQitemZ250433879569QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Boats?hash=item3a4f05be11&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A10%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A13 18%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 And Nicks Mozzie, another top buy!! http://www.formula16.net/component/option,com_gallery2/Itemid,26/lang,en/?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=5700 You can't go wrong...... Chocko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl69 Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 G,day Nacrajon I sail a Mosquito at Mannering Park. I have only been sailing for three years and don’t know enough about the other boats you mentioned to comment on. Mosquitos are very easy to rig and sail single handed and light enough to be move around from trailer to beach to water single handed yet can still accommodate two people on trap. The other big plus with mozzies is that they are a lot easier to manage in big winds then other 16ft plus boats because they achieve there speed through a balance of weight to rig size without being over powered by to much sail area. I have sailed mine a couple of times in 35 plus kn winds and while I wouldn’t recommend it, it was still manageable. It is the most inexpensive way of getting into the F16 class [correct me if I’m wrong]. The Mosquito is a strong class in the southen states and is growing once again in NSW and QLD. See-ya Karl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NACRAJON Posted May 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 Thanks for the replies, the Mozzy looks like more of an option than I initially thought. Pricing is keen with new composite Boyer pattern hulls at $8000, it looks like I may be able to make a new cat rigged boat with Spi for a bit over $12,000. I will try to borrow one for a sail to see what I think. The problem is that they are absent in NQLD , Darwin, Canberra and only a couple in SEQ. The longevity of the 4.9 may only be a perception one as I sail with mostly Hobies and NACRA’s, which a have a design compromise towards toughness and durability where the life is measured in decades. The 4.9 is what I have always wanted after I first saw one, so the decision may be as simple as that. I have been told a cat rigged 4.9 w/Spi is similar time to rig as the 4.5. Camping down the coast isn’t a pipe dream, have a look at Topcsans posts on the 4.5, I have a set up so I can carry 2 backpacks safety in a fwd mini tramp as well as a 100mm screw top PVC pipe in place of the Spi pole. In the sheltered waters of N Qld or Whitsundays it is achievable and regularly done. [This message has been edited by NACRAJON (edited 31 May 2009).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 I can symathise with you mate, I've just been through all this. http://www.catsailor.net/cgi-bin/ubb/Forum11/HTML/000122.html The Camping routine is a great idea up here (FNQ) although it is a good idea to stick with the islands, as we are to lizards (CROCS for southerners) as chiko rolls are to us. The 4.5 looks good, and i can tell you that Briscat does a great job, but be prepared to wait as good work takes time. Look forward to watching your progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmessee Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 A Nacra 5.0 is a boat that would suite your requirements. Can keep up with a H16 and is great single handed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scumbag#1 Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 YOU CAN RIG A 16 SQ. BY YOURSELF, AS I DID IT FOR YEARS. YOU JUST NEED TO PUT THE BEACH WHEELS UNDER THE REAR BEAM TO TILT THE BOAT FORWARD, PROP THE TOP OF THE MAST ON SOMETHING LIKE THE TRAILER MAST SUPPORT AND THEN LIFT UP THE MAST. JUMP OFF THE FRONT OF THE TRAMP HOLDING THE FORESTAYS AND HOOK ONE OF THEM UP. THE MAST CANT FALL DOWN THEN! PIECE OF PISS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NACRAJON Posted June 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 A 16sq mast is too heavy for me, I’ve tried but the metal pins in my arm stop me. Emmessee - I'm marginal at righting a 4.5 now at 80kg. In salt water no problem; in fresh water I need a righting bag. So I assumed the 5.0 would be too much boat to right single handed. You have had a lot of boats since your 4.5, did you step up to a higher class before the Playcat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furr_ball Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Jon, May be able to organise a test sail on couple of mossies at Toukley since there will be a few of us. Seriously worth considering as the light weight platform and rig make it easy for one to rig and handle. Plus it then can be sloop and also kite rig to really up the excitement, although some just compete very well as cat only set ups. They are very efficient at delivering their power. Consider this - in the Peel Island race, that you sailed in, I came in on corrected time in front of 5 X 5.8's if you put my time into the other division. Mine is a 15 plus year old timber boat with old sails and I did not push it at all as had my 10 year old son who does not trapeze on board. A newer kevlar mossie like Ben's is another world and for the price there is little that offers same bang for buck. See you at Toukley and you can compare a few side by side. Cheers, Drew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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