Jump to content

Windrush 14 Yardsticks


Recommended Posts

I have had a number of people ask me about the new Vic YS for the square top Windrush sails and what they should do. Is it worth changing over to the new sails, and the guys that have changed are asking are me are they going to be penalised if they come and sail at our club.

The new Vic Windrush YS for square top is: Cat =88.5, Sloop = 87.5, S/S = 84.5, and the H16 is 83. Well I don't know how they came up with these new square top YS, there must be some very good W14 sailors with square tops over there.

We have around 10 Windrush sailing in our fleet and we have regattas, sometimes with 3 times that and so far the square top has not been proven to be any quicker at all. The same guys are winning and the same guys are coming in at the same places, and that's with or without the square top. The factory said they are just a cosmetic update, they are the same size and were not a increase in performance. I tried a set and I couldn't tell any real difference in performance, I was impressed with the new jib it was flatter and didn't cave in so easily when pinching up but that's it. We have had all year looking at this and the only thing that seems to make any difference is the weight of the boat and the weight the boat is carrying. The guy that is 65kgs with the 78kgboat is quicker off the wind than the guy that's 95kgs and 85kg boat and always will be. In the perfect conditions for sailing against H16 (8 knots) Mr 65 can beat a Hobie but as soon as its 12 knots he's not within 5min and in 18knots the rest of the Windys are all over him and the 16s are out of sight.

Therefore until there if proof the square top is quicker we won't be using the Victorian YS, I don't know how many Windrush even sail in Victoria or anywhere over east in numbers, They must be very quick and there H16 guys must be slower than everywhere else. We sail with the neighbouring club 65km up the road and they sail Hobie 16s and they always beat us by way more than 5 minutes and if the wind picks up they are way ahead. With this new YS there is only 1.5 min difference. The YS we have been using have been refined over years and they suit the performance of the boat.

Our YS: Foam, Cat 93, Sloop 93, sloop total min weight is 220kg, S/S 88 and if you have old heavy hulls its +2.

We have a old pre Mylar class called Vintage, Vin s/s no trap 100, Vintage sloop 103 so you can buy a $500 boat with wobbly old hulls that may be 100kgs, clapped out Dacron sails and go and compete with the guns of the class and be competitive on YS and I feel that's what a YS is for.

Any other YS would be counterproductive to Windrush, why would anyone buy a new square top and be penalised so much, so we are going to encourage people to buy a new sail and come and sail on the same YS as always.

Regards

Badboy 6340

Commodore PDYC

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know of too many guys using the new square top over here in the east to cause such a marked change in the YS. We had a similiar problem when the new foam maricats were introduced, they didn't change their YS at all and quite a number of other 14 sailors weren't to happy about it. Fortunately, cool heads prevailed and the YS change came about AFTER good reliable results became available.

I would suggest you make, if any, minor changes based on your info at present and when you have good reliable results, adjust them accordingly, if necesary. Don't use the VIC ones.

Paul

Link to comment
Share on other sites

According to Windrush (Brett) the new square top is simply a way to keep the boat current - it's not designed to be any quicker...

The only way that will happen is to match an elliptical mast to it - but there are no plans to do that - yet...

What happens is that the really fast sailors tend to skew the performance figures for the class - they're so far out in front of the rest of us (even those of us with foam hulls and current sails) - that the W14 yardstick is not representative of the average Windy sailor... or boat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi guys

I agree with both of you guys, and yes Brett said that to us when he showed us the first square top sail. I agree with PP we have a few guys over here that always sail 5 min under the YS, One guy used to use a Dacron main and Mylar jib S/S and still flog us. But over the years I have been doing the results most of the fleet are bang on the YS's. The +2 for old hulls seems to be spot on as well, It helps the class because its big cost to upgrade to foam and if guys feel they can never win you won't see them for long.

The biggest change we have made is to the sloop min weight up to 220 from 197.1. This is to encourage skippers to use a normal size crew not a matchstick with the wood shaved off as a crew.

If W14 sailors want more performance they should buy the factory kite kit. Brett loaned it to me and the difference is out of this world, its everything that the boat needs, very fast, easy to sail with a crew. I was on my own and with time I may have been able to do it all but much better with someone to pull it up and down.

Cheers

Badboy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wish to clarify a couple of issues here:

A boat's yardstick represents the best possible performance of the class. If the National Champ on the best boat enters a regatta of equals from other classes, then yardstick corrected results should have them all finishing together.

So PP is correct; it is not representative of the average sailor or boat, and is not meant to be. This is clarified on p.3 of the YV yadsticks, where it says "The aim of the yardstick is to provide a basis for yachts of different ratings to compete fairly when sailed well. the yardstick is not intended to compensate for differences in skills or competence of individual sailors."

If you have guys "that always sail 5 min under the YS", then the YS needs to be adjusted.

Typically there is only 1 yardstick per class of boat. For Paper Tigers it is 91.5 YV or 92 Koonawarra. To sail a PT competitively in yardstick based events, a skipper needs to have a boat close to minimum weight, with carbon foils, modern tear-drop section mast and newish sail. A classic old PT with fat plank boards, eliptical mast and old sail will finish 5-10 minutes later, no matter who sails it. Similarly, there is only 1 yardstick for an NS14 or MG14 dinghy, although new boats & rigs have massively improved performance.

A different yardstick for older Windrush would be appropriate if there were a change in class rules, such as minimum weight. Where you say "the sloop min weight up to 220 from 197.1", when was that written in class rules? Is that the difference between Mk1 and Mk2 Windies? Is that 220kg for a fully rigged boat (which seems a LOT), or 220lbs for bare hull platform?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Tony

Thanks for clarifying the YS thing, like I said there is a guy that sails under the YS. he is very light and a great sailor but I don't think even he could sail competitively against other types of boats on the Vic YS. My main concern was that the massive reduction was for the square top as it states in the Vic YS page. But so far they have not been quicker at all, some skippers have said they feel less powerful than the old sails

Windrush in the clubs that I have sailed at over here in WA sail in 3 different configurations, Super sloop, Cat rig , & Sloop hence the 3 different YS. Quite often its one start so it helps to have the different YS for each.

I have added a few more at our club, just as a club thing only, because at one point I had half old boats and half newer foam/ Mylar boats and a mix of old boats with new sails.

I can understand having one YS for a PT they are all sailed in the same configuration.

The change in sloop weight from 197.1kgs weight of boat = 77.1 + 120kgs for skipper & crew, up to 220kgs that's now a total 143kgs for skipper & crew. This was voted on by the Windrush association at the WA Easter state titles. I was not able to be there but some of the reasons are

1. The sloop class is the only Windrush class that involves kids and it's the only way that those kids can learn catamaran sailing and progress into sailing their own boat, cat not a mono and build cat sailing, and the sport.

2. With the current class weight the kids were getting kicked off the boat as young teens because they were too heavy. It is hard enough these days getting kids into sailing without them doing dangerous dieting before a regatta just to be on weight. Or losing confidence because the boats going slow because its over weight.

3. We are losing all the kids to other sports at this age because they are still too young to sail their own W14 even with other kids, it's just too much for them to handle. They go out and tip over or get into some sort of drama and don't come back.

4. We can now have a 75, 80kg skipper and a 60, 65 kg crew and they can sail on the boat for years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Geez mageez! We're looking at 12 different yardsticks for Windies already, before starting a whole new class based on crew weight. How's this lot:

Windrush Cat Rig: 1up (foam) 94

Windrush Cat Rig: 1up (not foam) 96

Windrush Cat Rig: 1up (foam, square top) 90.5

Windrush Cat Rig: 1up (not foam, square top) 92.5

Windrush Sloop Rig: 2up (foam) 94

Windrush Sloop Rig: 2up (not foam) 96

Windrush Sloop Rig: 2up (foam, square top) 91.5

Windrush Sloop Rig: 2up (not foam, square top) 93.5

Windrush Sloop Rig: 1up (foam) 90

Windrush Sloop Rig: 1up (not foam) 92

Windrush Sloop Rig: 1up (foam, square top) 87.5

Windrush Sloop Rig: 1up (not foam, square top) 89.5

Windrush Super Sloop: 1up+trapeze (foam) 87

Windrush Super Sloop: 1up+trapeze (not foam) 87

Windrush Super Sloop: 1up+trapeze (foam, square top) 84.5

Windrush Super Sloop: 1up+trapeze (not foam, square top) 86.5

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Tony

I don't know who uses all those, the last time I sailed in a WA Windrush association run regatta they had two YS. Cat & sloop on 93 & super sloop on 88. That was with or without the new square top.

I don't run a different one for square tops either and if you sail on your own sloop rig with or without a trap it's still 88 YS, that's how it's always been, it's your choice to use a trap. Like I said before at my club we have a mix of old and new so I use a few others for the old vintage boats, but that's a club thing to try to encourage kids to still sail but with the old Dacron sails.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...