paper tiger rudders

[ymick]

gday all
i bought a very old paper tiger Sail No 1526 fiberglass
it is in need of new rudders
have wooden blades and bits of old stocks
was originally drop down system
looking for inexpensive set up to suit please???
love m

[tonyquoll]

Cat rudders are notoriously hard to get. New ones are around $300 for the stocks and $700 for pair of blades (carbon fibre). You could als try the Vic PT Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/6251883876/

In a similar situation, I spent about $20 on hardwood and Super-strength Araldite to transform the old rudders into this:

[ymick]

dear tony

thanks for reply

yes, you and i on same track

have been given two sets of rudders and stocks from other cats but modifications are not justified by relative worth of boat

will manufacture something up if i cannot come up with suitable cheap option

searching net for old parts boat

last one went on ebay for $200 almost as much as the one i bought :0

regards mick

[tonyquoll]

I have 1 original 1970's rudder box; drop down style with elastic. It's so old all the varnish has peeled off and the screws have gone rusty, but if you want it you can have it.

My first PT was a $50 wreck. Then I bought another old one for $200, and merged them to make 1464 "Why Worry?" as seen above.

So that Dad and I could race each other on similar boughts, I found another wreck in a backyard, restored it, then paid $200 to keep it.

It turned out to be an excellent boat; 2128 "Pelikinetic". I hand-made rudder blades & centreboards for it, replaced the mast, sail and all the controls (spending about $1000), and it won regattas.

As the trampoline was perished and falling apart, and I wanted proper carbon foils and a Redhead sail, it was cheaper to sell it and get another boat than buy all the components.

2901 "Tigerdelic" came as a kit, a hull platform with unfitted rudders, blank mast section and sail off another boat for $2500. I've probably spent another $1000 since then on upgrades, including a nice trailer. We've won the club championship, local regattas, and placed top ten in the nationals (2010). Awesome boat; just to sail it better.

A minimum weight racing boat with a nice sail, good foils and great set of controls is such a joy to sail; so much more responsive, faster and more fun. Progressing from a really crappy, heavy old boat taught me the value of each component, and upgrading piece by piece showed me how much difference each one makes.

All the same, if someone were wealthy enough to just buy a good racing boat straight off; I'd definitely recommend that approach!

[knobblyoldjimbo]

just that a shiny new one puts the happy punter back $18k

[QB2]

that much for a new PT??

[tonyquoll]

PTs advertised in latest APT magazine include:

2848 "Watermelon"; kevlar foam-core hulls, top racing gear on road trailer $4200

2415 "Curlew" foam sandwich hulls, top racing gear on road trailer $3000

 

That's what I'm talking about; good competitive racing boats for about the same cost as replacing foils, tramp and sail.

APT magazine: http://aptca.papertigercatamaran.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=60&Itemid=53

[knobblyoldjimbo]

What is it with Kevlar Tony?  Clearly you end up with a bullet proof PT but I have read (or imagined, same thing really) that Kevlar doesn't stick too well to important things like gelcoat and other stuff.  Have there been issues with them in PT world?

 

And the foamies, presumably they all come from the Fay moulds or were there other moulds built.  Are the hull shapes from there still current?  Would one have to do any work to bring them up to current racing trim?

[tonyquoll]

"Watermelon" was built in NZ, and has been covered in white gelcoat the 6 years I've known it. It has been racing until recently. For unknown reasons the skipper has gradually raced less and less and now the boat sits idle, so is for sale.
Speaking with Mosquito guys, they say carbon is a bit brittle, so a carbon skinned boat is vulnerable to being destroyed in a collision.

I heard of one carbon PT being smashed into by a speeding A-class, which took off both bows. The boat sank, with bouyancy in the sealed mast the only thing stopping it from disappearing completely. The skipper stood on the submerged wreck, holding a righting rope, and was not rescued for hours as the rescue boats mistook him for a windsurfer. The skipper has another carbon boat built, and insisted on thick foam bulkheads to provide increased stiffness and flotation. That one has finished in the top-ten at the Nationals year after year; clearly a very fast boat.

Kevlar provides more stiffness and strength than fibreglass, without the brittleness of carbon, though may be too flexible, so some use a kevlar-carbon composite. That's either alternate layers of carbon and kevlar, or possible a special weave of both fibres in the one cloth.

The end result are boats that are super light and stiff. Because the class has a minimum weight of 50kg for the hull platform, they have to add lead, so it could be argued there is no actual advantage over timber or foam-core fibreglass.
The Fay moulded boats are legendary, with multiple wins in State, National & International titles. As a one-design class, most  boats are the right shape. A few home-built exceptions have too much rocker and are slow. The only recent change has been a shift to skinny, high-aspect centreboards, which required modifications to the centreboard case. Most top guys have retrofitted the boats and packed out the case. I'm still running the older Fay 'spoon' boards and happy with them.
There are other moulds; something like 1978-1982 'PT Yachts' in Adelaide built the first foam boats, such as my former boat 2128. The shape was good, but the foam was vulnerable to becoming dented.
I believe there is now a new mould being used by Formula Sailcraft, to produce new boats in Melbourne. The Vic PTCA has been working with them to ensure the boat is top-spec, and were talking about a prototype to be demonstrated. Not sure where they're upto now; but that shiny new boat, fully fitted out on road trailer as around 3x the price of the 2nd hand ones.
The other boat Curlew is a Fay foam boat, which I believe has been in storage for about a decade. If it's the one I think it is, the skipper suffered an unjury and hasn't sailed since, but hung onto the boat in the hope of physical recovery and a return to the water.
Aside from these two, there are other top racing boats for under $5000.

[knobblyoldjimbo]

Interesting info Tony.  I also know of a Maricat that took the front off a DNA A class so I guess that's one all in the 14's vs A's !!

 

Formula Sailcraft say "Our Paper Tiger hulls are built from moulds aquired from Ken Fay and incorporate a roll-over gunwale for easier grip when lifting and carrying the complete boat."  http://www.formulasailcraft.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5&Itemid=3

[ymick]

tony

interested in your old drop down rudder box

understand a lot of what was written as good advice but at moment have 4 boats of varied configuration

not that interested in racing but getting on water and playing around

seeing what works and gaining experience at low cost end so if major investment becomes possible know exactly what to get (:

only interested in spend if its more fun or will get more use