Darryl J Barrett Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Seems right to me REV, how could adding weight to the boat for a lightweight crew possibly be a "safety issue", (the opposite seems more likely). The only logical reason has to be to try to equalise the performance between light and not so lightweight crews. But once you start to try to equalise performance based on added weight doesn’t the logical conclusion mean that every boat and crew are weighed and they all have to carry weight to bring everyone up to the combined weight of the heaviest crew (plus boat)?? This would never happen of course so where is the line drawn to be “fair”?? It all starts to sound like horse racing where the better the performance of the horse, the more weight it carries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REV YUKKA II Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 yes so is adding the weight a saftey issue or is it too limit performance. i have no problem with it being a performance issue but let's call it how it is. and if it is for saftey that a min 140kg crew then should it be that if you are under then you should not be allowed to compete. ( i would not like to be under the microscope by the cornier if a fatality was to happen and my answer was yeh the crew where under by 5kg so we made them strap it to the boat). i always thought it was for performance reasons and to stop people strapping there 8 year old son to mast like happens a lot in some of the other sailing classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Here I am, boat still has not seen the water. (This Saturday, yeehaa), and having my two bobs worth. In finding out as much information on my N5.8 as I can, I came across the International Nacra Class Association website. Clicked on the Aust link, and it did not take me to the Aust Nacra Association website that I thought it would, but a section of the International one. On there, there is a link to the Class rules. "Section 7, Boat and Crew weight 7.1h The 5.8/5.8na class legal minimum crew weight is 290 lbs. (minimum two people). A class legal 5.8 must weigh 420 lbs. minimum." Someone else can do the conversions! Claws Website is http://www.nacraclass.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornado Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Originally posted by REV YUKKA II: yes so is adding the weight a saftey issue or is it too limit performance. Manufacture can recomend that you need a min weight of 140 to help right the boat. If you are lighter, other means can be used such as a righting pole but would be at the descretion of the boat owner. The min weight and weight correctors can be used as a deterant so as not to make it an advantage to run under 140 kg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HooD Posted December 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 420 Pound(s) = 190.508796 Kilogram(s) 290 Pound(s) = 131.541787 Kilogram(s) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryzabone 644 Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 So how do all the new boat owners feel about strapping 25kg to their boats? (if the new boats do indeed weigh 165kg) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micky Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 Guys, I think you will find the extract of class rules found is out of date, and i know for a fact it is from the USA class rules which are slightly different in some areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryzabone 644 Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 Can we get a link posted to the current set of Aussie rules then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmessee Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 THe 5.8 is now a diferent boat in the USA with a square top rig onboard many of the new boats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HooD Posted December 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 I think a lot of people who have had their say in this thread deserve credit for being genuinely constructive. As far as I am aware the nacra 5.8 in the good old USA is a discontinued model. The stories I have read go along the lines of introducing the nacra 6.0 and tearing down the 5.8 class in the process. the 190 kilos comes from the original 180kilo min weight + the NA upgrade which is the bridal foil, big jib and fittings. as has been mentions the nacra usa rules don't apply to us. I Think nacra AUS approach is much better, making the 5.8 lighter and stiffer and giving it near 6.0 speed was a lot better way of keeping more people in the class. full marks the the BCC. I sail with 160 kilo's on board as crew weight, this weekend just gone we had heaps of trouble righting the boat. in 10 knots of breeze and bass straight waves it was a biatch!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HooD Posted December 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 Basically we came up onto the back of a 700 series boat so fast it caught me out, I expected them to be around the wing mark and long gone by the time we got there. instead i had to turn the boat so hard to avoid a collision that I was ejected from the boat. back on topic... the guys on the 700 series boat combine at 130 kilos, a few more when wet. the week before they capsized at least four times just for fun and righted the boat every time. granted it was blowing a good 20 knots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REV YUKKA II Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 i have sailed with with crew weight of 130-140 before and have capsized on my old boat 628 and have always been able to right her and that was with chicks as crew. seb and his dad sail yukka I (616) and they would be about 130-135 and they have no drama righting it. but still no one can tell me how adding weight to a boat can make it safe and easy to right. mick come on you are the pres and inforced the rule last year at the nat's with redback can you explane it to me? ( i want to know as the crew off that boat has are still pissed off and i would like to give them an answer). don't mis quote me i am all for a min crew weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryzabone 644 Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 I am still waiting to see the Australian Nacra 5.8 class rules in writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REV YUKKA II Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 it has been 11 months since i asked that to mitch. i still haven't seen them. i think you need the de vinci code to unlock them. it's easy to get the ayf rules you just go the web site and down load them. i remember back in our waterski days we had a bloke who used to quote the newcastle uni sports union rule book knowing no one else had read it, then one day we did read it and found out he pulled the wool over our eyes quite a few times. it is always nice to know the rules before you start the game. if you can get hold of a copy let me know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REV YUKKA II Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 it may be called the "blue book" if that helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryzabone 644 Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 OK ... Bris Cat Centre are mailing me out a copy of the class rules. I will PDF them and have them available for download (hopefully) by the weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 The rules covering the situation at weigh at the last Nationals are; 7.1d.".....The 5.8 has a minimum racing crew weight of 140kg." 7.2 Crew Weight......"Minimum crew weight may be met by adding weigh back etc.. to a max ,but not exceeding 23kg" This rule goes on to state what and where weight shall be carried. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HooD Posted December 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 That is not part of the class rules though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 Forget about min crew weight it is set at 140kg and that is that. Don't complicate it concentrate on min boat weight. Set it 5-10kg heavier than a new boat. This way you don't penalise people who choose to buy a new boat buy loading it with lead. Doesn't matter what crew weight you are on a pre 1200 series you wont compete with a well sailed new boat. If you choose to sail an older boat that is your choice. Really the price between an old 5.8 and a newer second hand 5.8 is not alot. eg 1333-$7500 verse 1606-$11000. About the price of a new set of sails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 The rules quoted 7.1d & 7.2 are from the "Int. Nacra Class Rules pertaining to One Design Control as Amended for Australia". These along with the Sailing Instructions were those used at the last Nationals and cover the issue of crews being weighed in. Your State Assoc. should be able to provide a copy of these to members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmessee Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 http://nacra.us/580/580dex.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REV YUKKA II Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 yes i think we need a min boat weight so we can have a platform as to add weight if crew is under 140kg. it was not fair what happened to redback last year and i would hate to see it happen in the future. (we want to engourage more boats not turn them away! looking forward to seeing the rules mitch can you email josh a set and he will get them on our nsw web site's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REV YUKKA II Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 re min weight rule, if it is worded for safty then it needs to be chaged to performance equalisation. as no one has yet been able to tell me how adding weight to a boat makes it easier to right. john what happens after 23kg is that all you have to put on or if you need more then are you allowed to compete or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryzabone 644 Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 Just thought of something. If weight is added to a boat due to Min Boat Weight, won't that make it harder to get up if it goes fully turtle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 Hi Martin, the addition of weight to compensate for crews failing to meet requirements under rule 7.1d is limited to a max. of 23kgs. If the crew carrying 23kg is still under weight, they are accepted as legal for racing. It would probably be easier to continue this thread if all those interested obtained a copy of the rules from their District Secretary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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