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Are newer 5.8's better than older 5.8's


madboutcats
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Not a lot of class racing for 5.8 spinakers, however plenty for standard 5.8s. The 5.8 is also very poorley set up for a kite with the over rotation and large, non-self tacking jib. Would be cool to see a 5.8 with an Infusion rig on it, but not worth the cost of doing it.

As far as new boat, off course a 1400 to 1500 would be lighter and stiffer. It will likely have a larger jib if yours has not been converted. As newer boats came out of the factory, they became lighter and lighter. No min class weight for the 5.8s. The latest 5.8s to hit the water are significantly lighter than your one when new.

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Hi..

I have an older 5.8 than yours.. I initially traded my 16sq for cruising with the family with club racing a second priority,, having said that, this season she has won sprint races and.. with someone more skilled on the helm has won a championship race a few weeks ago. Most of my success is due to my regular crew, my nine year old son who, with all his gear on weighs in at 35 kg. Understandably, this frustraits the hell out of the guys that have spent twice as much on a newer boat,, so apart from having to get half the fleet to assist me with getting the old girl out of the water, I am perfectly happy with my 25 year old(Guestimate)boat. I too have played with the Idea of a kite. My boat has had one at some stage, but when I see the advantage gained vs all the extra gear required... it need to be a long downhill course to see the benefit..

Bottom line is.. How serious are you about your racing and is it worth the extra expense.

Oh well, thats my 10 cents worth.

Mark

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Thank's guys I'm not really serious about racing, most club racing I do with my wife as crew and she wouldn't handle the kite, but I have a good mate who comes down for our longer races such as 3 weeks ago in our 20km downhill Lobster regatta. I never really saw the Infusion or 5.7 again once they got their kites up, I wouldnt have sailed to their standard anyway it would just add more excitement for my mate. I'm also trying to organise a 50km run next year and I think a kite would be fun for that.

regards Jeff

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  • 1 month later...

Just to reacivate, Sail no. 622 is for sale about an hour from where i live. It has deep gouges in the bottom, 2 have gone through the glass and cracked the hull integrity. it looks like someone dropped it onto the roller frame on the trailer.

Mainsail has 2-3" cut in it, rudder boxes have severe wear aruond gudeon pin bushes.

I told him not to bother setting it up, as he was asking around$5k.

My question to the Nacra savvy is, are they worth doing up or just buy the bloody 570 and be done with it?

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Cruiser its only worth around $2500-$3000 if you compare it to the ones in the trading post. Theyre a good solid boat, the gouges in the bottom would be easy to repair the same with the rip in the sail. As for the rudder gudgeons there are little plastic inserts that go inside the gudgeon on mine, were they there when you looked at that boat? they may have worn out and dropped off.

If anyone has a newer 1300 upwards 5.8 to sell feel free to contact me as mine is probably written off now.

regards Jeff

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  • 4 weeks later...

Gday. I'm sailing 707 at minimum weght and have regularly beat 1621 and Steve Yarro so old boats still go OK. I'm still tuning it and run the old jib system. This is easier for my 10 year old daughter crew. For those who have been around a while my brother and I opposed the compulsory introduction of the new system back in 95. See you all in January at Hervey Bay.

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Let's add some spice to the topic!! Since the bridle foil jib was introduced to improve the performance of the 5.8 and the newer boats are made from lighter materials, I would be happy to have my fully rigged boat weighed as part of a rating type scenario. That being a time correction factor given to older/heavier boats and those using the old style jib as it obviously has a significantly smaller sail area. After all at a national title are we trying to find the best sailor in the class or find the person with the lightest boat. If those who

forced the compulsory change to the bridle foil are confident of the performance improvement of this change this should not be a problem. The availability of running the old style jibs would encourage lighter crews such as my situation (father son/daughter) into the class.

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i would rather go the other way and do a big change to double kevlar hulls, carbon beams,foils and mast square top main. then the 5.8 would be a total weapon of mass destruction for proberly less than 30k.

but seriously a min weight would be good in the boats, but as far as time corections go i would not support that in any way shape or form in a national situation.and i don't believe that having the smaller jib if you are on min crew wieght is that big a disadvantage as having the bigger one with min crew weight i find it is hard to hold the boat down and really power it up to windward.

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Originally posted by REV YUKKA II:

i would rather go the other way and do a big change to double kevlar hulls, carbon beams,foils and mast square top main. then the 5.8 would be a total weapon of mass destruction for proberly less than 30k.

but seriously a min weight would be good in the boats, but as far as time corections go i would not support that in any way shape or form in a national situation.and i don't believe that having the smaller jib if you are on min crew wieght is that big a disadvantage as having the bigger one with min crew weight i find it is hard to hold the boat down and really power it up to windward.

It would be interesting to see a 5.8 with an Infusion rig. Would be able to drive the hell out of that boat.

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Originally posted by REV YUKKA II:

i would rather go the other way and do a big change to double kevlar hulls, carbon beams,foils and mast square top main. then the 5.8 would be a total weapon of mass destruction for proberly less than 30k.

but seriously a min weight would be good in the boats, but as far as time corections go i would not support that in any way shape or form in a national situation.and i don't believe that having the smaller jib if you are on min crew wieght is that big a disadvantage as having the bigger one with min crew weight i find it is hard to hold the boat down and really power it up to windward.

Wow!!! Sounds like you've just invented an F19 ... a whole new class to play with for five minutes and then watch as it falls by the wayside.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Wangi boy has the right idea.If you want bigger fleets at Nats and States, you must have some incentive for the older, heavier and softer boats to compete. I believe the min weight should include boat and crew. The new boats would still have the advantage because their stiffness gives increased bouyancy, but a couple of good lightweights on an old boat would be in the hunt, particularly in light conditions.

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some more feedback from an older boat.

I sailed boat number 1450 at state titles against all new boats and really struggled against the other 5 new boats for speed. On the other hand raced against 6 or 7 other old boats this weekend at the Peel marathon and beat them by between 12 and 25 minutes. So you could assume that 1450 is slower than 1600 boats and faster than older boats. It weighs 186kg and our sailing weight is 148 kg. I am sure that it is not the weight that makes them slower but the stiffness of the platform. I also think that it would be unfair to change the handicap of older boats as this penalises new boat owners and the Nacra factory. If you want to compete on a level field buy a new boat.In any other class (eg lasers) the boat is only competitive at the top level for a couple of years. Do not forget that at any national and state titles there is a separate competition for under 1500 boats which can be just as enjoyable to sail in as at the top, and you have boats to follow.

As far as jib sheeting goes my son passes the sheet to me and I give it the last pull, Works well. One drama with small crew is he cannot pull the boards up.

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It's great to see such debate so here are a few more points. A rating system does not punish new boats by creating a level playing field, it just makes the competition fairer. I certainly do not want to be forced into constantly buying new 5.8s just to remain competitive. We also need to ensure that any alterations made to the class are with the consent of the class association and not at the instigation of the manufacturer. The introduction of the bridle foil was not passed by the membership at the AGM but enforced by the manufacturer to this end the manufacturer should only be able to vote simply as a rank and file member. I have seen changes made to both hobie 18 (magnum) and nacra 5.8 which both resulted in minimal if any improvement and significant reduction in fleet numbers. Also I heard on Saturday (un confirmed as yet) that the latest VYC yardstick is making allowance for mach1 type 5.8s over the newer types. Can that be confirmed? If so isn't that interesting?

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