The second Olympic Cat

[Darryl J Barrett]

I like your sentiment GREG but your English requires some work still

All the best from the state where the weather is "perfect one day and only better the next"

Darryl

[Emmessee]

I am in Adelaide often as I have a manufacturing plant down there, and I can promise you that the weather is nothing like that. In summer it is hot one day and boiling the next and in winter you can get whatever the southern ocean wants to throw at you.

Dont get me wrong, I love the place, and at least the weather is consistent in Summer unlike Sydney.

I will be down there next week again I think, out to lovely Salsbury, no sailing there guys.

[Darryl J Barrett]

JEES' EMMESSEE it's a joke! I am in Adelaide as well, and that lucky B------d is in nth Queesland in all that lowsy Queenslad weather. wish it was me! (and have only ever "out fitted" from RM my whole life -met RM the first time in 1954 on a station in SW Queenslad - Durham Downs)

[Emmessee]

I know it was a joke. You have to stop taking it all so seriously mate.

Gotta love Salisbury though. Some days out there I thought the roof of the factory was going to melt, then I realised it is asbestose and I was safe from the heat.

Had dinner last December at that nice place on the river. Can't remember the name, but it might have been something "boathouse". Not sure, but it was sensational. We booked out the entire top floor and had a blast.

I loved it when I used to get down to Glenelg for some racing. It is seriously one of the best spots in Austalia to race, as it offeres something to all sailors.

[Darryl J Barrett]

Since the redevelopment of Glenelg, the yacht club amalgamated with Holdfast Bay and the new (relative) club - Adelaide Sailing Club - has to be one of the best venues in Australia. Have you sailed there as yet EMMESSEE? I know Mal is quite familiar with it as he campainged the Tiger "nationals" there about three years ago and turned in a good tight showing

[Emmessee]

Can't say I have, but maybe Pete can arrange for us to hold the Maricat Worlds there soon.

[Darryl J Barrett]

Boatshed? watch out the ISAF won't let anyone call their titles "Worlds" unless they are an ISAF recognised international class (they act like the Gestapo to anyone who does without their permission and their financial cut)

[Darryl J Barrett]

Though pete could get away with it by calling it something like "the best cat sailor in the world" titles?????

[Darryl J Barrett]

How about "Worlds Greatest" titles

[tornado]

Ok, nuffs enough

Apologies guys, the conversation got a little heated and became a little non-constructive from both parties. Whilst I respect your experience in the marine industry Darryl, please don't underestimate my knowledge in this subject. I may have only done 3 years on a Tornado (21 years of sailing) but they have been quiet intense and we have picked up knowledge and experience from guys whom are experts in this field.

Some of my questions still remain unanswered but continuing this thread will only make things worse and will probably never address these issues properly.

If anybody has any questions about the Tornado Class, i.e. expected campaign costs, commitment off campaign, how to launch a campaign also the quality of the modern Tornado (1990 plus) and the financial benefits it has over many other classes at top level racing, lets post in another thread and we can discuss it in a constructive manner. Both myself, Macca and others can try to answer any questions you have and if we don't have the answer (and I will be surprised if Macca wouldn't) we will endeavor to find out for you.

To all you newbies and average cat sailors, remember that all International Tornado sailors were once newbies too. If you aspire to own and race a Tornado like myself, you can build up the skills with entry level boats, move onto intermediate performance boats before moving to a Tornado. The big T is not beyond the reach or ability of the average sailor. Also if you wish to pursue an Olympic campaign, if you want it bad enough you can do it. Not everybody will be successful in representing their country in an Olympic Games but you will find it a very rewarding journey non the less. Regarding the financial side of the campaign, you can market yourself to sponsors. Start off small at first and as your experience, results and skills improve seek out bigger sponsors. Even club sailors should look at finding sponsors as it will help cover the cost of your weekend recreation. Also their is government funding for those who prove their commitment. As Forbes always says "The money is there, you just have to learn how to grab it"

Regards

Stephen Medwell

Team Tornado 'ALIVE'

AITA President

[This message has been edited by tornado (edited 12 May 2004).]

[Andrew Holden]

Don't any of you do any real work ?

[Greg W]

G'day Andrew

Makes you bloody wonder don't it! I was arse deep in teeth this mornin' so I couldn't get to da puter to fit in some telling witticisms. Real work chaps - go and find some jobs!

Cheers

Greg. ROFLMAO

[Darryl J Barrett]

Don't feel bad Steve, I think that every one found it,at the least, entertaining, and I personally enjoyed most of it. I actually admire your passion and commitment to Tornados, I wish you all the luck in the world with it, and anyone who commits themselves totally to an Olympic campaign in, especially Tornados, as you appear to have done will need all the encouragement, help and luck that they can get. It's a long hard path to follow which will lead to untold success and joy or heartbreak, with no in between. lets hope it is the former. BUT you still haven't given this thread your full opinion of a SECOND cat for Olympic status (forget the Tornado for a while, it's safe already as an OLympic cat and will be for many moons to come)

[tornado]

Cheers Darryl,

I am sure we kept everybody on the edge off their seat waiting for the next post. No hard feelings I hope. Will have to learn to respond to posts in a more constructive way.

At the moment I am sailing with some great people from various classes. If we are not succesful in representing OZ at the Olympics (and the odds of doing so seem very small), If we find some more sponsorship dollars to cut down our costs, get a new boat and race against the finest T sailors at atleast one major European Regatta, how could we be unhappy with that. If you take sailing away I may have to look forward to work (aaaaahhh)

As for a second Olympic cat class, this looks highly unlikely so we should not worry there. I cover this in a previous post. May have been lost in the web site crash.

However I feel that we are missing a female and single handed discapline.

My opinion only is that for a single hand cat the M18 or something simular and maybe with a kite would be an ideal weopen off choice. Dose not have to be 18 foot but must be high performance.

As far as a female cat goes, the Taipan 4.9 would make an ideal boat. However it is not an Interational class and dose not have a strong International following. May be a Hobie 16 with or without spinnaker rig.

The Tornado is in a good possition to retain its Olympic status for many more years.... However I could see a boat such as the Marstrom M-20 if it built in numbers as a strong contender in years to come.

Regards

Stephen

[Darryl J Barrett]

Hay steve it doesn't have to be an international class to be declared Olympic by the IOC or the ISAF (the latter are like little hitlers when it comes to their control and constitution) If a class was declared Olympic, and it was through a seies of selection trials conducted by the IOC, they would give it so many years before it's full inclusion, and boy would you see it become fully international in a short time! After all the Tornado itself was selected that way, it wasn't anything like what we would call "International" when it was selected as the Olympic cat.

[Emmessee]

either was the 49er.

it was made an oly class and then the fleets build.

Also made Julian Bethwaite plenty of samolians.

[Darryl J Barrett]

The Bethwaites have always been touched by the golden finger of fate, it seems that they only have to look at a drawing and almost immediately it pops out in it's hundreds of finished and sold boats, then look at Berny, he has stuggled for years to get just one good cat onto the market! I have always said that in this life some are more blessed than others and it appears to be given out like a lottery.

[Darryl J Barrett]

Do samolians come from Samoa????

[berny]

Actually Frank Bethwaite is almost solely responsible for developing the planing hull form in a dinghy. He spent many many hours and $$$ building hulls and testing with a balance beam on a power boat till he found the profile of least resistance. His 'High Performance Sailing' is a wonderful book albeit a bit of a bore if you're not fully into weather science but that aside there is a wealth of knowledge there if you care to take the time. He's forgotten more than I'll ever know about sailing. He used to fly commercial aircraft on international routes, flying boats, mostly Sunderlands into Rose Bay. The guy is a legend in his own lifetime.

Bern

[macca]

Berny,

I too loved my first read of Franks book, until I came accross statements like "catamarans are good moderate condition recreation machines" and then goes on the state that catamarans are too slow to tack in reaction to gusts and frustrate sailors. He also goes on about the limits of catamarans in heavy wind, particularly downwind. The whole book seems aimed at justifying the development of his beloved 18ft skiffs. Funny thing is that he is miles off the mark when it comes to reality, I have been on the harbour with the T (old big rig and current rig) and the skiffs have never been close to my moderate wind recreational machine. Based on these innacuracies and some others in rig efficiences, the rest of the book is lost to me. Pity really as he is right on the ball with the weather and wind pattern stuff.

Also, think you will find that Uffa Fox was the responsible party for the planning dinghy "Uffa was the father of the planing dinghy. Having worked on high speed power craft, Uffa believed that if a dinghy hull were made the right shape, and her crew held her upright, she could be made to plane over the surface. He was a little diffident about it but finally gave his theories full rein in the International Fourteen Footer Avenger. In 57 starts in 1928 she gained 52 first places, two seconds and three thirds including winning the coveted Prince of Wales Cup. A large order book was soon built up and for many years his were the most sought after designs."

Sure Frank did a lot of work in the area, but it was well defined before he got there.

[This message has been edited by macca (edited 13 May 2004).]

[Darryl J Barrett]

I'm sorry gentlemen but the real "hero" of the understandings of sailing theary and practice and the source that it would appear that Frank gleaned most of his "knowlege" of hull performance etc, was from a man called - C.A.Marchaj - whose books on sailing theory and practice described all that is necessary and pertinent to the understanding of Aerodynamics, Hydrodynamics and their interaction at the boundary layer. His principals and theories have stood up, unchallenged and pertinent to the closest of scrutiny and are still used as THE reference for any one attempting to design any type of water borne craft today, particularly wind powered. There would not be a comercial designer of reputation or a naval architect today that doesn't have copies of his books in their library and makes regular reference to them. Before Marchaj most small sailing boat design was by evolution ie take an existing design, alter it a little to get a snall improvement, and put it on the market as a new design. After Marjachaj a realy good designer could apply the correct principals to a completely new craft and "know" precisely how it would perform in given conditions, while the craft was still "on the drawing board"!!

[Darryl J Barrett]

I was told by Frank himself when he was promoting the "new" Taser, that he owns books by Marchaj and often refers to them

[berny]

Yes he's defifitely way off when it comes to cats but there is lots of exceptionally useful info in the book allthesame.

B

[Darryl J Barrett]

You have to admit though that Frank is the expert in all things sailing! If you have two free days just ask him, He'll take that long to tell you how good he is!

[macca]

Yep, he is certainly not backward in coming forward

It is funny how there is all this amazement out there at the moment regarding the performance of the new breed of monohulls (maxis and skiffs) but the basics remain that cats are quicker for the same size by a substantial margin, even round the cans. Then when you consider the performance of the big multi's and Mono Maxi's the multi's are creaming these new generation mono's that are twice the size! These multi's must be bloody good machines considering they are good moderate condition recreational boats as Frank tells it

As for the original topic of this thread, how about introducing a class that is super cheap, even rotomoulded hulls and big rig for the boat size, this will ensure that the sailing is exciting even though the boat is heavy etc. The added advantage of the rotomoulding is that the boat can be produced very cheaply and it is durable enough to be used as a development boat with a smaller rig fitted. A bit like a Laser radial and a full rig.