sando Posted July 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Spread of Events Surely by now 13 pages of forum - people will realise we are not going to grow the number of 14' cats by holding a 'travellers series' in one season! This is what happens when cat sailors have little to do in the off season. My objective in starting this thread was twofold. 1. To get more 14' cat sailors to support more regattas and travel to have fun. 2. provide a platform to promote 14' cats. I do not have the experience nor time to manage this event and to Tony Q Hastings I'm grateful - someone has lead. If there is southern bias this season - true or perseved, then fix it with a northern bias next year and on an alternate year there after. Great waterways like Lake Macquarie, Botany Bay, Great Lakes, Lake Tuggerah etc. deserve to be sailed on so lets look to the next two or three seasons to showcase 14' cats. KCC Top Gun is not favored by me simply because it is on the BIA's Try Sailing weekend which is important to the survival and building of our club. This event was responsible for puting two new sailors/boats into our 14' Cat class, crew into TY's and monos and dozens of juniors into our learn to sail program last season. I'm a clubman first and foremost so will sail Top Gun Saturday at best then back to Port for Try Sailing on Sunday. I strongly support the YANSW's Sail Sydney initiative particularly if it moves the cats to KCC. There was a meeting last Friday and I'm awaiting a call from Dave Edwards to confirm the move from Pittwater to Kurnell. Rohan - this is Sydney's time to shine! As a club PKSC is winding up for Christmas on the 10th Dec to allow the whole club to support Sail Sydney and I would encourage other clubs to get behind this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korwich Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 I'm happy to support this series as it stands for this season, yes it does seem centred on the gong, but so what. I'll will be at manno, I hope to get to wallagoot I'm keen to do the BYRA Marathon, I would like to sail the other regattas too, but family will probly dictate that I can't do them all. Lets just run with what we have in the votes for this year, see how it goes, if as mentioned there is a south bias, remedy it next year, just let us get this baby off the ground 1st. Phil Mari SS 5005 Bulldozer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Planet Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 Hey guys, if the catamarans can be moved to Kurnell for Sail Sydney - absolutely agree - we need to support this - so let's all get behind it? I appreciate it's not really a substitute for a recognised Sydney regatta - but it's better than nothing... So, if we have to 'remedy' the series next season, that's a pity... peeved northern sailors this year, and disgruntled southern sailors next? Maybe we should all go back to the original posting? 14' Traveller series for 2011-2012 Any interest in a 14' Cat travellers series in NSW next season? Possible regattas 1/ Mannering Park 14' regatta early October 2/ Kembla Klassic PKSC Late November 3/ Something Sydney Metro - Ryde/Kurnell Late January 4/ 14' Regatta Koonawarra second weekend in February 5/ Lake Wallagoot March 6/ Tookley April 4 of 6 to count, A&B divisions Koonawarra Bay yardstick. I know the Maricats did this for a number of seasons. So, OK, my 'home' club happens to be Kurnell, and while at the moment it's not a 14ft centred club, the potential certainly is there if we support and attend one of its main regattas... of course Concord Ryde is a stronger club... and that's apparently been 'overlooked' too... Anyway, as Toukley has indicated it would hold a special 14ft regatta - which is a gesture of support for the series - but has likewise been 'dropped' - then I will do my best to attend as many races there as I can - given work constraints of course... Just a pity there's such an obvious 'bias' this year... but yes, letz get on with it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just One More Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 I totally agree with Sando. With 6 weeks to the start of the season we need to adopt this series and get it off the ground. I'm sure that Manno and Koonawara will always be part of the series as that are dedicated to 14' cats. The others are up for grabs. As I said before in this thread I look forward to sailing at different venues both inland and on the coast, I would even consider interstate for the right regatta. we are starting to get input to the forum from interstate, building 14 in Vic or QLD might just help to get a real "nationals" happening again in a number of years down the track. Its time to accept the series as it is and get on with it, otherwise sailors are going to get over it, loose interest and the whole concept will fall over. If sailors are interested in other venues put them up for discussion at the regattas in this series for the following season. Come on guys lets get on with it. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darcy1945 Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 Just my 2 pennies worth, 6 events, 3 south, 3 north, 4 to count. I would do the 3 north and travel to 1 or 2 south, depending on accom costs. So, for me, Manno, Toukley, Kurnell, BYRA, Koonawarra, and possibly Kembla/ACT. Manno and Toukley will attract all Northern club based boats (Manno, Toukley, Tannilba, Speers Point and odd ones from further Nth to Tarree and Great Lakes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyquoll Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 Great that even dissenters can agree with 4 of 6, so we should have great participation in the series. We can set about demonstrating the good spirits, comradery, fun times and great racing experienced by 14' cat sailors. Just a final check: have all these clubs agreed to participation as set out in the Notice of Series? 8 & 9 October, Mannering Park 14' Cat Regatta - (think so) 22 & 23 October, ACT Multihull Champs - (not yet contacted, should be OK) 27 & 28 November, PKSC Kembla Klassic - (yes) 11 & 12 February, Koonawarra Bay 14' Cat Regatta - (problem with boats upto15', which excludes Nacra 14square) 10 & 11 March, Wallagoot Lake Boat Club Regatta - (yes) 6th May, BYRA Peter Loft Marathon (Pittwater) - (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Planet Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 Is there any word on Sail Sydney yet? If that could be moved to Kurnell - so much the better... as there is nothing happening in the Traveler's Series over December anyway... if we need to get together as a lobby group and submit a formal proposal, letz do it? So OK, it seems the final list has been compiled – and I'll now keep quiet about it – but it escapes me why we can't have a couple of 'optional' events in there that carry the same weight in the series... Can someone pleez tell me why that is too difficult? And why not a 'prize' for the sailor who attends the most events, regardless of placement? Might be nice... PP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyquoll Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 In the same way that you didn't run in the last election, so are not the optional Prime Minister. The results of last year's Paper Tiger traveller series reveals that the one sailor who attended all the events DID receive a special prize: the overall win! Thinking of a magazine article to promote the series. Any brilliant comments you'd like included, please email me tonyquoll@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sando Posted July 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 Did we decide on an entry fee? $10 per race? $5 of which is donated to host club? 20 sailors x 6 races x $5 = $600 towards a winner and runner up, snags and some beers for final BBQ and presentation at BYRA Sando Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 Sando, As each of the rounds of this event is an existing regatta, each of the competitors will be charged the regatta entry fee by the club, usually around the $50 mark for a weekend regatta. Are you proposing an additional $10 per race on top of this? I can't imagine that being very popular. Or are you suggesting that the host club will be satisifed with receiving just $5 per race from the 14ft cats? As some of these regattas are ONLY 14ft cats (Mannering Park and Koonawarra Bay), your proposal effectively halves the entry money these clubs would receive. You may be able to collect an additional $5 or $10 from each 14ft cat per regatta if they want to enter the Traveller Series. However, this will probably greatly reduce the number of boats "officially competing" (ie paying the additional money). I would guess that people won't be entering this event for the prizes. They will enter for the fun of the competition and maybe the prestige of winning or placing. Do you really need to provide lavish prizes? Possibly you could get some person or business to donate (or make) a nice perpetual trophy. One of the great things about the original proposal is that it latches on to existing events, which means less organisation, less cost, less hassle, more competitors. Make the most of the fact that you are using these existing regattas. I would suggest charging no extra and therefore counting every single 14ft cat that attends as part of the results of the Traveller Series. Each event usually has a BBQ and a prizegiving, so don't try to organise and pay for your own. The racing and socialising are the main things. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyquoll Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 somewhere a few pages back we went with no committee, no fees, no hassles. It'll be good to meet up at the regattas and talk prizes and whatever later. Maybe a suitably grand perpetual trophy, with names engraved on it? Maybe the winner gets a 14-foot cat: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pointed Reply Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 A couple of years ago the maricat assoc tried a travellers series with a small fee. Basically we only got the same people with no extras sailors but extra cost. Just let it go with no fees, no trophies, no entry forms and no hassled. You need to be careful about an organised event. It is the duck theory: If it looks, walks and quacks then there is a good chance it is a duck. So if it looks like an organised event then the organisers can be liable for any unfortunate eventuality..........that is just how it is. If the 14ft series works then do something formal. The Maricat assoc is still interested in talking to all classes about one 14ft cat association, formally incorporated and insured so committee and directors are covered. It could be one Incorporated Association with separate independently managed sub-committees. Sailing NSW should let all affiliated associations come under their insurance but they don't... and so it is very expensive for small assoc. For example Football NSW cover the 3rd Party Insurance for every soccer club in NSW. The Maricat Association of NSW and ACT is Inc and Insured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sando Posted July 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 Thanks guys, I do remember now this had been covered. As I mentioned previously I was awaiting a response from Dave Edwards YANSW regarding the 'Sail Sydney' and cats moving from Pittwater to Kurnell. Here is his response this morning. Hi Tony, Yes, we agreed to move all Cat classes to Kurnell. I’m out of the office today- I will give you a call next week. Dates will be Fri 16th to Sun 18th December. If you have a standard set of Sailing Instructions you use for your class or preferred courses, # races per day etc, can you please send to me and I will put it in the mix with the other classes. Regards, David. Do we go with a standard 14' cat regatta format and SI? Sando Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TornadoSport260 Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 100% 14ft regatta format and SI's. Koonawarra YS. I discussed this with my mate Jeremey Atkinson (Pres. of Woollahra SC, PRO & on one of YNSW's committees) when he rang me a few weeks back wanting feedback on shift it to Kurnell. He didn't think it was outside of the do-able realm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyquoll Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 yardsticks Sorry to complicate things, but the yardsticks listed in the Notice of Series are not 100% Koonawarra. See: Notice of Series: http://nswptca.papertigercatamaran.o...NOS%202011.doc Entry Form: http://nswptca.papertigercatamaran.o...TRY%202011.doc For the F14 the Yachting Victoria yardstick appears more accurate. YV also used for Nacra 14square and Kitty Cat, as they are not listed by Koonawarra. Hobie Wave, Nacra 430, Smartcat and Weta are not listed by YV or Koonawarra, so have yardsticks from other sources. The series With Sail Sydney becoming a viable option, shall we include it and have 7 races with 5 to count? The reasons for are that it may be the best publicity of the season, the best opportunity to show-case our boats, and some say it is the most central location. Reasons against are that we haven't seen confirmation that Sail Sydney will be allow entries from all classes or all skippers, and we don't know if we'll be racing against each other in one division, or as separate classes. Based on the Facebook poll, if one race must be dropped to include Sail Sydney, that race would be the BYRA marathon (8 votes). However at this stage Sail Sydney's late inclusion has only 1 vote. It would be great to send out publicity this week, so we could either include it, with the option of dropping a race later on. Or support Sail Sydney without including in this series. Rather than more pages of unresolved debate here, how about updating your votes on the poll: http://www.facebook.com/pages/NSW-14-catamarans/112511035502076?sk=wall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pointed Reply Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 I'm over the allowable age to use Facebook ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Planet Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 KCC President, Barry Willis has confirmed that Sail Sydney will be run from Kurnell. So that's great news - as we don't have anything penciled in for December anyway, And you're right Tony, this is a nice way to include at least one Sydney event in the series, but as for dropping Byra - I think that's not a good idea - as it really is a 'summit' event – and offers a chance for sailors to experience something different and potentially very challenging - it's a logical 'wind-up' event for the series. Now, if we need to lobby Sail Sydney to have us all in together - let's do it - as this event is supposedly run to showcase sailing - and the most spectacular start and competitive racing is guaranteed by all the 14's in together... Personally, I don't think attending 5 events is too many - taken over a full season of sailing... PP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 As previously stated, Koonawarra Bay SC welcomes feedback/results from events that will add to the data for the yardsticks of particular classes in order to improve accuracy. If anyone has any results that show Koonawarra Bay's F14 yardstick is not accurate, please send them to us (contact details on the website). And we are also happy to add other classes, when they make an appearance and provide some results on which to base the yardsticks. We added the F14 to our list based on very limited appearances (none of which were at our regatta, except for Bern Leslie's 430) and this may explain any inaccuracy. For the sake of accuracy, I don't think there is a need to add another one for boats like a Kitty Cat, when we haven't seen one in action for maybe 20 years. Prince Planet: I think you'll find Sail Sydney has a "class based" approach, so they may be resistant to mixed classes trying to form one class. They would argue (correctly) that "the most spectacular start and competitive racing is guaranteed" by a large fleet of one single class, not a mixed bag of various classes who will work out their final results based on a yardstick system. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Planet Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 Hi Dave, that may be true when the 14's were getting fleets of 30+ - but not anymore... I detect the move to at least 'join' the 14ft 'plasti-cats' into 1 larger body - at least the Maricat & Windrush classes - as they are so very close in spec & performance – to help regenerate the fleets and interest in this type of boat... so who is Sail Sydney working for - us or themselves? Just askin'... PP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TornadoSport260 Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 Guys, seriously take it from someone who had the biggest scare of my life in 19yrs of sailing last night. Lets get the off this ground with the events suggested by Tony. For those of you that didnt follow the CYCA Sydney-Goldcoast race this happened to the 3/4 $1millon dollar yacht I race on as bowman while I was in the aft most bunk sleep after 10pm... http://www.sail-world.com/Australia/Audi-Sydney-Gold-Coast-Yacht-Race---Wasabi-loses-keel/86619 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 Whoa! That IS scary. How lucky were you that it happened in light conditions and that the boat was water ballasted! That could have been a whole lot worse. Really glad to hear that you and the crew are safe, Michael. Regards, Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TornadoSport260 Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Thanks Dave. It puts a whole new perspective on things. Less than 10knts, less than 0.5m seas & 1 windward tank of water in, were really what saved us. Any one of those factors could have caused us to roll. Top notch response from fellow competitors (Wicked, Eleni & Calibre), VMR (even if VMR Camden Haven's launch was out of the water being fixed), Water Police and the CYCA. It did show how much we do not appreciate good race management and volunteers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucketman Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Traveller series So are the Nacra 14 squares formally invited along? It would be great to have them racing with us. Getting sick of watching the back end of foam Maricats. Need some different scenery. Just wondering how many would come to Kurnell if they were formally invited for the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Planet Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Hi Bucketman, there is an active group of Nacra 14sq's at Kurnell - and I'm sure you'd be welcome there... Hey, I'm not a spokesman for KCC - but since you asked... The thing is, because the Top Gun regatta has been dropped, and BYRA is also apparently under threat, then it would be nice to include something Kurnell in the series...even if it is only Sail Sydney... Of course, if KCC Top Gun were to be included, then I'm betting that they wouldn't have a problem allowing the 14's to be started in a mixed fleet - as that happens anyway... and I do believe that the 14sq's are in that same division... anyone care to confirm? PP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyquoll Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 The Nacra 14square is invited and included in the Notice of Series. At 4.5m they are still 14' something, and in reality race well for line honours with the top PTs, Maris and Windrush. Have also heard there's a few 14sq at Kurnell, occasionally at Kembla, Dad races 1 at Fitzroy Falls, and we've 1 at Wallagoot. However, in the past few years Dad's 14sq has not exactly been racing with the 14' cats. We're hoping some clubs will be flexible and allow the 14sq this season. I've written to a couple and got their OK to adopt our suggestions. Here's how the clubs listed have ruled in the past: 8 & 9 October, Mannering Park 14' Cat Regatta - (yes; upto 15' OK) 22 & 23 October, ACT Multihull Champs - (raced in different division, with the fast cats. Should be OK to join us this year) 27 & 28 November, PKSC Kembla Klassic - (raced in different division, with the fast cats. Should be OK to join us this year) 11 & 12 February, Koonawarra Bay 14' Cat Regatta - (not allowed) 10 & 11 March, Wallagoot Lake Boat Club Regatta - (yes, all cats in same division racing each other) 6th May, BYRA Peter Loft Marathon (yes, seems all cats race in Division 1; yardstick Reckon anyone interested should come anyway, race with us, and if necessary we'll calculate their corrected time and add them to our scoresheets. What can possibly go wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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