To start a WAR

[Emmessee]

OK, which boat is faster.

Sailed by the same bloke or gal with the same ability..........

Same vintage boats....... al things equal.

Maricat or Windrush.

[cruiser]

I'd reckon Windrush, but I have bad memories of a maricat hire fleet on the noosa river.....

[TornadoSport260]

To do it in the least biased way.

On Yardstick a Windrush S/S is the fastest of the 14's (exc. F14's and no one really knows about the new nacra).

Koonawarra Yardsticks are:

Windrush S/S - 87

Maricat S/S - 90 & 88 for foam sandwich hulls

Hobie 14 Turbo - 88

Arrow - 89

Paper Tiger - 92

[mferguson]

The new nacra 430 has a provisional handicap of 85. I can tell you that it's pretty quick upwind but overall about the same as a well sailed Arrow. 85 is probably a bit low.

[Emmessee]

Roger all of that.

I am after a 14 again for my new home that has a little lake on it but will sail in Newcastle area occasionally.

Will keep my eye out for both.

[TornadoSport260]

If your in the Newcastle area, the best club is Mannering Park. There is more 14's sailing from there than anywhere else in NSW and it ranges from beginners to national champions.

[darcy1945]

Windy (Foam) S/S currently fastest and cheaper 2nd hand than Foam Mari S/S. But if you sail Cat rigged, Mari is quicker. Not much diff between old GRP and Foam Mari (maybe 2min in 100) when sailed by lightweights but weight hurts the older boats a lot more than the foamies. Windrush buy foam only or you will be dissapointed.

[darcy1945]

Cruiser, most Mari hire fleets used 4m (13,) Mari.

[TornadoSport260]

Darcy,

I beg to differ with you on the comment about non foam Windrush.

Provided you get a bulkhead boat thats had the required work to fix the ply bulkheads then that are only slower in 18knts+.

Proof: I beat dad at a states a few years back on Fade to Grey (1989 bulkhead). He had a less than 1yr old foamie.

For someone club or state racing then a bulkhead boat will be more than suffice for their requirements. Note: most bulkheads that were competitively raced had all the vertical and horizontal bulkheads redone to avoid the ply rot.

[Emmessee]

So how much is a Windy that I want?

Foam if possible and where do I get one?

[knobblyoldjimbo]

You could do yourself a service by reviewing some of the posts, quite probably within this 14ft section. Those Windies are always bellyaching about how their handicap hurts them. You might be out in front but it would appear that some of the other 14's maybe able to sail to their handicap a little better (or something like that). The Good Mr Darcy usually has quite a selection in his back yard. I've personally found that a good new sail makes a HUGE difference, maybe the wicked cost focusses the mind somewhat!

[TornadoSport260]

Matt,

Probably between $4000 - $6000.

As a guide.

I own a 94 vintage foam windy. It has less than 1 season old sails, the blades were new for the 09 nationals and are immaculate. Every line has been replaced and upgraded to the best in the last season, main sheet blocks are less than 2yr old and are the 40mm Harken blocks. Hulls are in fantastic condition. It has the carbon fibre rudder crossbar etc etc etc. I'd be looking at $6500.

Note: my boat is not for sale though. Get in contact with some of the guys at Port Kembla SC some might be willing to sell up.

[Emmessee]

Thanks Pal,

there are a couple on Ebay at the moment.

One in Bris and the other on the Central Coast.

[TornadoSport260]

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/WINDRUSH-14-CATAMARAN-BRISBANE-/290463064250?pt=AU_Boats

That one looks like it might be a bulkhead boat. Note: Bulkhead boats had hatch covers behind both the front and rear beams. Also the 4000 series sail number suggests that it may be in the right era.

Also ask the seller to check the rear beam casting for a hull number. It should be behind the beam on the hull side of the 2 piece casting, clearly visable. Also get the seller to check if there is a ply bulkhead forward of both hatches, they should be almost directly underneath the beams.'

The boat on Lake Macquarie is a no goer if you want to race. Its almost definitely a mk1 boat without bulkheads and the mk1 boats weren't built to min. weight.

[Emmessee]

Hey mate. Email me at emmessee@yahoo.com.au and I'll shoot you my number and we can chat.

[tonyquoll]

Wondering if you're sailing 1 or 2 up?

The Koonawarra yardsticks quoted above list 'sloop' boats with jibs, as designed for 2 people.

Amongst cat rigged boats the yardsticks are listed as:

Paper Tiger 92

Maricat - Cat Rig (Foam) 92

Hobie 14 93

Maricat - Cat Rig 94

Windrush - Cat Rig 94

Given that the figures are so close, the question I'd ask isn't "what's fastest", but what would you enjoy sailing the most?

I like the maneuverability centreboards provide, the responsiveness and the highly adjustable rig of the PTs.

[cruiser]

Originally posted by darcy1945:

Cruiser, most Mari hire fleets used 4m (13,) Mari.

Hi Darcy,

We had the 14' version. We also had a 14' hobie which hardly ever got used, everyone wanted the maris.....That was at O boats on the Noosa River, Ben Moon and I used to have practice races on them on the weekends!!

Thanks,

Chock

[cruiser]

We have a Windy that does compete with us at Tinaroo, and the guy that sails it is fairly fresh compared to Devon and I, but that thing can move .

There is also a carbon fibre PT on ebay!!

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Paper-Tiger-Full-Carbon-Fibre-/190429498731?pt=AU_Boats#ht_500wt_1154

[TornadoSport260]

That's one serious PT...

One would think that its alot lighter than min. weight so they had to add a far amount of cloth to get the weight back into it, so it'd be almost bullet proof & stiff as a brick.

[Loose Change]

Originally posted by TornadoSport260:

That's one serious PT...

so they had to add a fair amount of cloth to get the weight back into it, so it'd be almost bullet proof & stiff as a brick.

And at about $90/metre for carbon cloth I would suspect that the boat is now hugely over capitalised, or unless at $1.30/kg for lead they used weights.

[TornadoSport260]

No doubt that it is. Carbon cloth isn't cheap but if you know the right people its not too bad i bought about 5 linear metres last year for $50/m (200gsm twill weave).

[tonyquoll]

The Carbon-fibre hulled PTS are very stiff and underweight. At weigh-in during the Internationals, Lance claimed he had to add 20kg! Not sure if he was serious.

'Carbonated' is an absolutely top boat, which gives the buyer every chance to win races. The carbon construction ought to last decades without ever gaining weight. The removable ballast ensures this.

Mike Wold in Victoria is consistently fast on his. As he built a series of ply boats before going carbon, it shows he believes carbon is the best material. He once told me about being sunk in a collision, and no-one rescued him as it looked like he was a windsurfer, standing there holding onto a rope with no boat visible. His current boat has 50mm thick foam bulkheads to provide flotation if it ever happens again.

Foam-core hulls have also proved competitive, such as 6xNational Champ 'Flyin Bryan'. I had one of the original foam-core boats from 1978, which is still close to minimum weight and going well.

Ply boats are more variable; some brilliant and others not so. I assembled 'Tigerdelic' from 2nd hand & new parts for about $3000, and it's as quick as any when sailed well. Next week I'm buying another boat for friends to sail, for $500. Will it be quick? That's a mystery.

[cruiser]

Hi Tony,

Lances' claim to being 20kg under weight, would that make the PT 30kg fully rigged?

Thanks

Chock

[Emmessee]

65kgs

[cruiser]

Hi Matt,

Is it 65kgs fully Rigged carbon boat, or 65kgs min weight for PT?

Thanks

Chock