Hi, there! Seeking some advice!

[iOrion]

Hey, guys.

My name is Antony and I'm from Sydney... *Insert AA-esque return greeting here*

I'm "new" to all this and was looking for some advice. Over the years I've spent some time sailing Hobie Waves out of the Whitsundays and recently Balmoral and now that summer is here I'm itching to do some more. I've always wanted my own cat, and now I'm in the position to do something - so first of all... where do I go from here?

Upon recent research I'm aiming for either a Hobie 16 or Nacra equivalent as they "seem" to be a good starting point and hanging off the side of a hull by way of trapeze looks like a lot of fun. I'm limiting my budget to start with but like everything I take interest in I enjoy it thoroughly - so it would be of no surprise if I were to upgrade at some point in the near future.

I wouldn't mind getting involved in a club. As far as I'm aware there's two in Sydney - Palm Beach and Kurnell?

Advice and thoughts, suggestions and the like would be fantastic.

Thanks!

[Emmessee]

Aaahhhh. You are about to get hit with a barrage of great information from some great people in this site.

I sail my Nacra 4.5 out of Balmoral at the moment and it suits me fine. It is like a big Wave in a way, but faster and more agile. I would steer away from the H16 as it is tricky to sail single handed and basically no fun to move around by yourself.

As a novice sailor I would be careful of going for anything too big or tricky. If you are wanting to race then go for a boat that has a class following and then I would suggest something like the Windrush 14 or Maricat 4.3. Both great boats and carry a trapeze if that is what you are after. They are also almost bullet proof and great fun to sail single handed or two up. They are sailed in number up on Lake Macquarie which realistically is about the same distance as Kurnell and they are a great bunch of people.

The Hobie 14 is nearly dead as they no longer manufacture it but there is still factory support for repairs if needed. They are not great if you are over 70kg's as they sink.

The Nacra family is forever growing and there is the Sirocco which is 4.2m long I think which is more resort style, then the 430 which is a racing machine and look awesome. Then there is the 14 square which is a one man racing boat with centreboards along with the larger 16 square. The 4.5, which I have had 2 of and love and it can be raced solo or with crew. Then you go to the Infusion and 5.8 which are racing machines and need a crew.

My 4.5 is second hand and I have been slowly doing it up, and you can get them from around 2,500 to 7000 second hand.

[iOrion]

Fantastic! I was just reading up about your build just before and many thanks for the reply.

The 4.5 was described to me earlier today as more buoyant than the H16 and to be honest, it's starting to look a lot more appealing. The Wave is fun, but I feel that I want a little more than that and considering that you claim the 4.5 to be faster and more agile makes me far more excited for the 4.5. I'm all about speed and agility... It's exciting stuff!

I suppose that if I'm going for at the Nacra, where's the best place to find one on a budget? I don't think that I could get a trailer included in that? Heh.

I forgot to mention that I'm looking for something I can grow into experience-wise, not grow out of. Most importantly

[tonyquoll]

Of Clubs near you; this one seems best: Concord-Ryde Sailing Club http://www.concordrydesailing.org

There are definitely a few cats there; I know of one Paper Tiger regular & they list A-class as having their own division.

Closer is Middle Harbour, which sails big yachts, or Northbridge, where they sail dinghies.

The downside of these is sailing in the mayhem of Sydney Harbour, which can be scary and I wouldn't recommend to inexperienced sailors.

Just about any boat would be brilliant fun, and better if you have the same as the other guys at your club. Maybe think of choosing the club first and visiting them on a sailing day.

In choosing a boat, maybe match the size of the boat to the size of you (& your wallet). As a lightweight skipper, I like the lightweight Paper Tiger. Taipan, Mosquito, A-class or Nacra are all bigger, faster, and suit bigger guys. You'd want to be sure you can right it after a capsize. The bigger boats tend to cost more too.

I don't think you'd out-grow any of the boats I've listed here; there is always more to learn about sailing. However I loath those plastic resort boats and am glad to hear you are not looking another Wave. I'm sure you'll love the speed, responsiveness and control of a proper racing boat.

[Groover]

Hi, my suggestion is to find the club you would be sailing from and go and visit them on a race/sailing day. Explain you are interested in sailing a Cat and go from there. If they are anything like the guys I sail with you will be out sailing on different boats in no time.

[Emmessee]

Mine was 2,900 on a registered trailer and ready to sail as it was. I chose to do the work to bring it up to speed of what I wanted with new sails and graphics.

I could have just rigged it and gone out for a burn, but I love working on the boats.

The reason I keep going back to Nacra is because they are reliable and reasonably easy to sail for the beginner and also challenging for the experienced sailor.

I have now had 6 Nacra's in total as well as Aclasses, Hobies, Maricats, Taipan, tornado and also a Paper Tiger.

The Nacra support is awesome and they deliver to your door as well as always at the other end of the phone for advice and help. The boats are basically bullet proof, easy to rig and sail as well as can carry a few people. I have had 4 adults out on a 4.5 without an issue.

Ebay, trading post and also here is a good place to find a boat and also let Brisbane Catamaran Centre know you are on the look out.

I do not race mine at the moment and have it more for fun. I am happy to let you take it out if you want.

[darcy1945]

Mannering Park ASC race every Saturday, we are 1hr Nth once you are on the freeway, come up for the day and have a look/sail before you decide on a class, we have 4m to 5.8m cats Mari, Hobie, Windy, P/Tiger, Taipan, Nacra, Gemini, Mosquito, Most (except P/T), can be sailed cat rigged then add trapeze and jib with experience. Prices for 4.3m boats start at $700 on reg trlr, 5.8m on unreg trlr $2500. Toukley on sunday (not so many to compare), Darcy, 43591729.

[iOrion]

Many thanks, guys!

Emm, I'd be happy to take you up on that at some point if you don't mind. It would be good get out on something other than a resort hobie :rolleyes:

There was a Nacra 5.8 on Ebay for sale that I was eyeing off - $4000 - but it's big... and I'm all of 60kg so righting it would be a royal pain.

How does a 16sq compare to a 4.5?

[Emmessee]

The 16sq is a different beast to the 4.5. It is built to race with a deck sweeping sail that really only allows one person to sail it. It also is a tad more unforgiving and you are out on the trap at all times realistically.

For your weight I would look at at Maricat or Windrush if you want to trapeze. The Paper Tiger is a great boat but more technical to sail, where the Mari's and Windy's are a simple set up and can be tuned more when you get more experience.

The 4.5 is a great boat for cruising around the harbour and also racing and can take 4 adults on it. I could not do that with a Mari, windy or PT.

I would head to Mannering Park and do what Darcy suggested.

[iOrion]

I spoke to a fella on the phone about a 16sq for sale up in Samsonvale. We had a chat and he indicated that the 16Sq might be a bit much for me, although a 14Sq would go alright.

The 4.5 is sounding more ideal. Anything that could take a crew of two, and be sailed solo would work. I've seen a few Maricats, a Paper Tiger and even a Windrush for sale, but I don't know what the differences are between the Maricat and Windrush.

I'll make some time to get out to Mannering Park. Saturdays, right?

[TornadoSport260]

Seriously for your weight & relative inexperience (don't take that the wrong way) the ONLY boats I would look at are:

Windrush 14 (can be sailed 2up with main and jib, 1up with main only, 1up with main, jib and trapeze. Very simple boat and the class has had a multiple national champion that weighted only 65kgs but he was a very talented sailor. Personally I race between 78-82kgs which is smack on the best weight. Robust boat that can take a bit of a beating (which we've all done as beginners))

Maricat 4.3 (can be sailed 2up with main and jib, 1up with main only, 1up with main, jib and trapeze. Very simple boat as with the Windrush and best weight is around the 80kg mark. Robust boat that can take a bit of a beating (which we've all done as beginners))

Paper Tiger (can be sailed 1up with main only, probably the best suited to your weight, but a more technical boat with the added complication of mast bend and centreboards. More fragile than a Windrush/Maricat/Nacra)

Nacra 4.5 (can be sailed 2up with main and jib & 1up with main, jib & trapeze. Simple boat but probably need a bit more than the 80kg for best competitive weight. Robust boat that can take a bit of a beating (which we've all done as beginners))

Arrow (can be sailed 1up with main, jib and trapeze. Not as simple as a Windrush or Maricat but not as technical as a Paper Tiger. Weight is around 75-80kgs (correct me if i'm wrong). More fragile than a Windrush/Maricat/Nacra.)

Seriously that's about the only boats I'd be looking at if I were in your weight/experience range.

As Darcy says, come up to Mannering Park one day. Feel free to email me mpfeffer(at)iinet.net.au and I'll give you my mobile and we could tee up a day that you can come sail my Windrush, which will give you a fair idea of what 14ft cat sailing is all about.

[iOrion]

I'll take anything on board that you guys suggest to me. You're the experienced ones, not me Two days ago I had no idea about any of this so it just goes to show that it pays to ask the questions and for that I'm grateful.

Taking into consideration what has been suggested, the most fitting out of the list seems to be the Windrush and Maricat based on my weight class although the Nacra 4.5 would be ideal for the cruising as per what Emm was talking about. Also, I think by way of budget the Windrush and Maricat are good to start out with. Like I said, I've seen a couple for sail now, but some of them are sans-jib/trap... don't suppose it would be hard to source those? Are there different variants of the Windrush 14 and Maricat 4.3? I know they've been around for a while but what has changed since they were first put into production? What do I really want to be looking for when buying one?

Much appreciated for the offer. When are you next out at Mannering Park. I'm extremely flexible so I'm happy to come meet you whenever you're willing to meet me out there.

[iOrion]

I want to thank you all again for you help and advice, especially Darcy for the lengthy phone conversation and Micheal for the emails.

Needless to say that I have a far better understanding of cats and am far more excited and enthusiastic about sailing than I originally was.

I still have a plethora of questions to ask and I'm looking forward to Saturday at Mannering Park as well as meeting those of you who sail out there.

[Emmessee]

That is the best thing to do.

If you are limited for fund, windy or mari. Pretty simple and there are plenty around. Especially Maricats. I love them both.

The mari is a tad more comfy in board and I never trapped on them at all. I am a lard ass though. The windy I did and it is a tad easier in my opinion.

Go and play and you can then make a decision.

As I said, if you want a go on a 4.5 I am in the Hunter Valley and have a lake you can sail on. Got to be quick with the tacks though.

[iOrion]

Thanks, Emmessee. I'm still willing to take you up on that, although I thought you were in Sydney? Where abouts in the Hunter are you?

How about Mannering on Saturday?

[Emmessee]

Not till after Christmas can I hit Mannering Park and I have no wheels on my trailer at the moment.

I am moving up to Pokolbin this weekend and next week. I live in Mosman at the moment and may keep the boat here for the summer so Balmoral is an option as well.

Come and taste the wine and have a sail.

[Emmessee]

Not till after Christmas can I hit Mannering Park and I have no wheels on my trailer at the moment.

I am moving up to Pokolbin this weekend and next week. I live in Mosman at the moment and may keep the boat here for the summer so Balmoral is an option as well.

Come and taste the wine and have a sail.

[knobblyoldjimbo]

another thing you might want to consider is that the bigger the fleet the better you'll get. At Manno we have a goodly fleet of 14ft's and quite a nice fleet of the big stuff. In between, ie 14-18 there's not too much although there are about three hobie 16's that race from time to time.

last weekend, just as an example we had the 1st and 2nd Windy guys (Son/Father) from a couple of years ago with the newest foam boats, two weekends ago we had the PT National champ, he comes irregularly but regularly we get another one or two PT's one of which qualified for the worlds last year. In the Mari's there are regular sailers in both types (foam/classic) and super sloop, sloop and cat. Makes for very good racing. I have a Mari classic cat rigged and just being in the traffic is great experience. Don't think that the 'less complicated' cat rigged Mari's are too simple, it takes a long (and fulfulling) time to master them and we do have some grand old masters at Manno!

[TornadoSport260]

a couple of years ago? I retained one of the 2 Windrush titles I had in Jan this year! Marko won the paper tiger interdominions (worlds) this year.

[iOrion]

After having a ripper of a time out at Mannering Park with Michael on Saturday and much help and advice from Darcy, I purchased my first cat yesterday.

"Fade To Grey" - W14. The hulls need some post-repair work but apart from that I'm looking forward to getting it out on the water with the rest of you.

Thanks again to everyone for your help!

[TornadoSport260]

I'll see you thursday to start the revitalisation.

[knobblyoldjimbo]

good choice there, well done.

Michael, sorry, didn't realise you had a solid hold on the trophy.

[TornadoSport260]

hahaha i sleep with it under my pillow...

[TornadoSport260]

Mannering Park Results from the weekend done on Koonawarra YS (i didnt include DNF's). I gave the 430 sloop a YS of 94.

Sail# Class Skipper Elapsed Corrected Place

6314 Windrush14 S/sloop Warren Pfeffer 1:24:10 1:36:45 1

6327 Windrush Sloop Michael Pfeffer 1:31:39 1:37:30 2

392 Maricat Cat Darcy Wilson 1:32:06 1:37:59 3

107972 Hobie 16 Williams Nigel 1:23:02 1:41:53 4

44 Maricat Cat Ross Smith 1:36:03 1:42:11 5

5599 Maricat Cat Brenton Curran 1:36:09 1:42:17 6

6 Maricat cat Israel Smith 1:37:50 1:44:05 7

37 Maricat Cat James Wearing 1:38:26 1:44:43 8

1724 Mosquito Granger Mark 1:38:14 1:56:57 9

437 Nacra 430 Ian Lamb 1:53:57 2:01:13 10

[Andrew Nelson]

Should you be in the north of Sydney head to Palm Beach Sailing Club www.pbsc.org.au WE are about friends family and fun. All classes welcome from Waves to F18.

Happy Christmas

Andrew

I can be reached on 0419 165 282.