Second cat ideas please

[dynomatt]

So I'm still fairly new to this catamaran caper, but my short experience with the Freestyle told me that it is great fun and I want more.

 

However, the Freestyle didn't have a lot of hull buoyancy and as a result, me and the three kids (14, 12 and 10 and I'm 95kg) made for a pretty challenging sail...beams dragging...hulls submerged etc.

 

So I want to upgrade and am seeking some feedback.

 

Based on research, I've narrowed it down to three options:

 

1) Hobie Getaway

2) Nacra 5.8

3) Hobie 18

 

All seem to have the size required but the Hobie 18 and Nacra are in different classes to the Getaway.

 

As it's with the kids, and I've got no intention to race just recreational fun, I'm leaning to the Getaway.

 

Any thoughts please? Budget is in the $3k-$5k mark which challenges me I suspect.
 

Thanks,

Matt

[HooD]

hobie getaway = too heavy and plastic yuck

 

nacra 5.8 = too much boat for a newbie

 

hobie 18 = probably still too much boat, but would be ok.

 

i would look into a nacra 5.0 = fast simple plenty of bouyancy, and there is not not much wrong with a hobie 16 for thrashing about on.

[darcy1945]

Go with a fair H 18 in your budget, v/good bouyancy and carrying capacity, reasonable performance and most importantly, the only large cat with furling headsail. Only drawback with the H18 is the cost of new parts and low availability of good 2nd hand parts. Take, or seek advice on what to look for in whichever boat you decide on, here at this forum, before you commit.

[Pirate]

if racing doesn't float your boat.........

 

 

perhaps this might........

 

http://www.catsailor.net/index.php?/topic/5432-moreton-bay-sailing/

 

not so much the tripping around they do, but what they use to do the job and the gear they carry

 

 

 

X 2 with HooD's suggestions

 

[madboutcats]

G'day dynomatt you haven't mentioned how adventurous you are or how much wind you like to sail in or how the kids like sailing, if you are looking for some action a bigrig (MK2) Stingray would be a lot of fun, not so much action a small rig Stingray (MK1) would fit the bill as well. I learnt to sail on a small rig Stingray with two of my kids as crew, then I got a big rig for more speed, now have a Nacra 5.8. An older Nacra 5.8 would fit your budget and carry your whole family or just a couple of you. There are ways to depower a Nacra 5.8, you tie your sail battens in loose with a wrinkle then pull your downhaul on so the sail is flat as a barn door, you can loosen the diamond wires so the bottom of the mast bends into the slot blocking the wind. Over 18kts the Nacra 5.8 requires some expertise but if your just stepping up you might pick your days so you go out in lighter wind. For what it's worth my daughters were 10 and 8 when they first crewed on the Stingray for me, my now 18yo daughter was my crew when we won the Goolwa to Meningie race this year which is one of the longest races in Australia for beachcats and it's wonderful to still be spending the time with her.

[dynomatt]

Thanks for the responses guys...much appreciated.

 

Hood...thanks. Noted the Getaway is heavy and plastic, but to Darcy's point it has a furling jib, and a front tramp for the kids to muck around on and lots of bouyancy. Agreed it's not as fast or as light as the others.

 

Pirate, cheers, that looks like fun. Unfortunately, sailing in Canberra is a bit limiting on the adventuring front. I am keen to explore Lake Jindabyne (while it's warm) and also down to Batemans Bay/south coast lakes. 

 

Madboutcats, I'm up for a challenge. I deliberately tipped the Freestyle just so I could get a sense about what's involved in righting. It was surprisingly easy but a bigger boat would be harder. In terms of winds, I'm not game yet to go out in very heavy winds...25kmh seems about fun for us. The kids are getting into it, but to be fair, probably not as much as me! However, with the Freestyle, I wasn't confident enough in my skills to then hand them control and I can't see that changing in a hurry.

 

For some reason I'm also partial to boomless...which the Getaway and Nacra have. But wing seats are also interesting...which the Getaway has and one Hobie 18 that's for sale has.

 

Matt

[Matt15]

Matt I'm in the same boat re: wanting a cat for sailing with the kids. So many choices out there makes it really hard to narrow down a single option especially when many of these cats, when being technical can be modified/depowered etc etc.

Lots of great advice and I like Hoods suggestions but don't rule out the rotomould plastic hulls on the Hobie 17 or even the Hobie Wave. Both very kid friendly as you noted without a boom, indestructible hulls and furling jib. Both will sail your troops around the bay and both are simplified cats which are very easy to rig solo. They just aren't for one who wants speed or comfort on a windy/high swells day.

Hobie 18/Nacra5.8 - more great choices but they are big boats - heavy to move around and hard to sail in high winds.

Hobie 16/Nacra5.0 - would be more suitable, more technical than the rotomould Hobie's and prove lots more speed suiting a wider range of conditions. You just need to get the rigging/righting down pat and again, these can be modded i.e. furling jib.

[Pirate]

..... if you are looking for some action a bigrig (MK2) Stingray would be a lot of fun, not so much action a small rig Stingray (MK1) would fit the bill as well......

 

and as it just so happens......

 

 

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/aldinga-beach/sail-boats/stingray-catamaran/1039985443

 

 

& smack bang in the middle of the original posters price range

 

[dynomatt]

Do you reckon the smaller boats (eg Stingray, Hobie 17, Nacra 5.0) would carry the famly? We're talking about 300kg for all 5 of us!

 

Matt

 

*edited to fix weight...we're not that fat!

[HooD]

 The stingray has probably the worst weight carrying characteristics, the beams are set below deck level and collect waves at the best of times. adding more weight will just make the problems worse. fantastic lake boats, 

 

400kg is well outside the design specs for pretty much any off the beach cat, my f18 has huge amounts of volume and a sticker saying max weight = 200 kilos. for that much weight you really should be looking into a trailer sailer or a 23foot multihull like the boxboat.

 

I have seen a nacra 5.0 win races with 270 kilos on board, didnt really like it but it flew in 30 knots! 

 

to be honest, your probably be better off buying two maricats and a double decker trailer. teach one of the kids how to sail and have a blast sailing with each other.

[dynomatt]

Thanks, I fixed the weight...300kg...not sure where I got 400kg from.

 

M

[HooD]

childhood obesity is an epidemic, didn't even think to question it! just as equally a family of body builders  

 

we have all seen inexperienced sailors go out on big overpowered cats come a cropper, near drown and never go sailing again. breaks my heart every time it happens. 

 

pick your days until your experience grows, and get really good at learning to right the boat. above all else everyone on board has to know to stay with the boat no matter what happens.

[Robbieandrew]

I'm going to throw the calypso 16 in the mix purely because no one else has. There are 2 main reasons I suggest thinking about it. 1, I have one and think its great. Bullet proof, easy to sail and rig, you'll get one pretty cheap and they are quite buoyant. 2, I've seen photos of a guy with his family of 5 on one before. It'll set you back between $500 and $3000 depending on the condition. I'm learning the hard way that they're not the best racers alongside taipans and alike though I've beaten some Hobie 16's on her before. Here's a video of me and 2 mates on mine last year, probably 220kg all up in 5-10 knots.

 

 

To Quote the website "She is equally at home clawing to windward in a closely fought club race, blasting through the surf in a blow, or cruising to an island with the whole family on board."

 

http://www.calypsosailcraft.com.au/16_popup.htm

 

Admittedly they're full of old technology and not as good as the Nacra or Hobies anymore but certainly tough as and family friendly

[Matt15]

The Hobie Getaway specs a carrying capacity of 453 kg for between 1-6 persons. I have no experience with this myself thou sorry.

[darcy1945]

Having owned a "Getaway" I would not recommend I to anybody, other than appearance and carrying capacity, they have nothing a cat sailor desires in the way of performance. 

[dynomatt]

Thanks guys,

 

I feel like I'm closer but not close enough...and also feel like I'm getting a bit of a mixed message.

 

On the one hand you are helpful in pointing out that the bigger boats (Nacra 5.8 and Hobie 18's) are quite the handful and fast and reading between the lines, some suggest they might be a bit much boat for my second. But then others are saying that Getaway's are no where near enough for me. Is it just me?

 

If the above is true, what lies in between these options please?

 

Thanks,

Matt 

[HooD]

There is the hyrda 16 footer, a prindle 16 if you can find one, even so for those boats 3 is a crowd and 4 is just too much for them.

[dynomatt]

So can I skip 16 footers generally from a capacity perspective?

[HooD]

Yeah, to be honest if you have your heart set on carrying 4 peeps around, then the hobie 18 is about as good as its going to get. there are a few on gumtree at the moment for 3-4k  and darcy may still have one for sale

[darcy1945]

No, I don't have an 18 for sale but John Kersh may have (NSW Central Coast)

[dynomatt]

Thanks...there's an 18 Magnum in Kingscliff that's looking good...just a bit expensive.

 

Is boom/boomless (ie H18 vs Nacra 5.8) an issue? Should I care about it?

 

M

[darcy1945]

Have owned and raced both, never an issue. H 18 slightly slower, much more forgiving, 2nd hand parts availability poor, genuine new parts expensive.

[madboutcats]

So can I skip 16 footers generally from a capacity perspective?

Not necessarily Robbie's suggestion of a Calypso has a lot of merit, it will carry the weight of your family, the tramp area is not a lot shorter than a Hobie 18 or any 18 mentioned, you can sail it 1, 2,3 or 4 people, try to find one locally to have a look at

[HooD]

Thanks...there's an 18 Magnum in Kingscliff that's looking good...just a bit expensive.

 

Is boom/boomless (ie H18 vs Nacra 5.8) an issue? Should I care about it?

 

M

 

seen that one on gumtree, looks like it has the early mylar sails, if it does (shiney on one side) beware they delaminate leaving you to find a new set of sails. (read expensive) 

[Paulo]

A Hobie 18 would be ideal as I have had up to four people on it and still had them shouting with excitement when it takes off. I have been racing on Lake Illawara south of Sydney and am thinking of selling it. It's an oldie but a goodie but my partner and her teenagers don't want to sail anymore and I want to look for an A-Cat or something similar that I can sail myself and is a little more spirited.  I haven't advertised it yet and was just looking around when I spotted this forum. These Hobies are basically indestructable but of course, other gear wears down. I've put a new tramp on at the start of the season, new job/main sheet and main halyard, refurbished the rudder cams and the jib furler, a few new cleats (e.g. downhaul and job furler sheet). The boat is on a registered gal trailer and has recently had a basic paint job. I want $2,200 neg.