humungus2 Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Boats weighed on the last day of the 2006 states. Hulls, rudders on and tramp. 5555 87.5kg 4100 91kg 3028 92kg 5008 90kg 4103 94kg 2928 94kg 3720 95kg 2755 95.5kg 4040 96kg 4111 98.5kg 2572 100kg Waynes foam sandwich boat is 73kg Wayne has donated the butcher scales to the Maricat association (thanks Wayne)so they will turn up at reggaters, states and nationals. The butcher scales and the boat in a sling is the only way to give a correct weight. Go on, ask me. What does it prove? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cool Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Mick what does this prove. Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pointed Reply Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 I weighed my jib sheets and blocks at 1.25kg dry, so 5008 is probably 88.5kg bare platform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humungus Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Well COOL, thanks for asking. It proves that there is close to 20kg differance between the old and the new which is exacly the weight we are trying to add to the minimum skipper weight for the new boats to keep things on a level playing field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Thanks for posting those platform weights. They are certainly in line with the Maricat platforms I have weighed over many years - range from about 100kgs to 85kgs. The new foamies would certainly be much nicer to lift on to the trailer at the end of a hard day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmessee Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Excuse me for sticking my finger in the pie, especially when I no longer have a Maricat, but having two different weights for sailors is rediculous. No other class in the workd does it and I can't see how it works. If a light bloke wants to buy a new Maricat, he is then at a disadvantage. The Nacra 5.8 boys have it right with two divisions. One for the older boats and one for the newer boats, even though they all start together. You have to promote the entire class. New and old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAX Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 While I disagree with the ruling, since I was in the minority at the vote will now accept it without issue. The ruling is in for 12 months only and will be looked at again next year. There is also an exclusion for ladies and those under 18 on this rule since the minimum skipper weight has been dropped for youth and ladies to encourage greater participation from these groups in maricat sailing (hopefully). When this comes up next year I would once again be against the different treatment of the new boats but will not make argument against the ruling until that time. Even though I think it is ridiculous.. I will keep my opinion to myself Anyway... focusing on a great National Title event in Queensland for 2007 and the Maricat 30th Anniversary Celeration on July 1st this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xmatelot Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 the new boat is just that.NEW old boats are just that also.OLD what is the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TornadoSport260 Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 Is the Maricat Association going out of their way to KILL the class? A class at some point in its extended life needs investment in new boats so that it can continue for another 20yrs. So by increasing the Skipper weight your basically saying that if you want a new boat you have to weigh X kgs. But if you get a light old boat you can weight Y kgs. That is absolutely ridiculous. There are light Maricats out there that aren’t foam sandwich, as I have sail against a few. But the idea of skipper weights is ridiculous Why not make a minimum platform weight which 'evens' out the class and allows old and new to sail together and if your light have a new boat well that’s good for you. But skipper weights are just going to hinder people when they think about what they want to do with that spare $10-11k. Ultimately a boat can only live for so long and without new boats in the fleet there won't be a replenishing of the fleet to continue to drive the class for the next 20yrs. Im sticking with ZAX and Matt. Its a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmessee Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 Not just a bad idea, it is a total joke. I am over 100kg's. I go and buy a brand new foam Maricat. I am legal to sail it. Over winter I decide to do the Kokoda Track and get malaria and other nasty bugs, lose 30kg's (would love that) and then when summer comes around and I am better, I am not allowed to sail that boat as I am not in the right weight category. What if there is a light bloke out there and he wants a new boat??? Does he have to carry weights on his back??? I just do not get it. Matt [This message has been edited by Emmessee (edited 21 April 2006).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgehugger Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 Well I have the sulution to the weight problem. I have been preparing my ageing Maricat for it's first race and am almost there. After sitting back and watching how it is going to pan out,I will now sell my Maricat and look to buy a Catamaran that I can sail where, when I race, the racing will be done on the water. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAX Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 please remember guys that the rule is only in for 12 months. Would not expect to be still in place after the next AGM. Don't go selling the boats just yet... still a great boat to sail and race The new boats are even better !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REV YUKKA II Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 what is the min skipper wieght? what is the min boat wieght? if you want to have a fair'a system you need to have a min wieght for both skipper and boat. ie lets say you made the min wieght for boat 75kg. then if you have a lighter boat then you must put wieght on it. then lets say you make min skipper weight 75kg. if you have a skipper that is 70kg then his boat must be no less than 80kg. that is 75kg min boat plus 5kg for skipper. if say the skipper that is at 70kg is sailing an older boat that is 89kg then no extra wiegt is required. if the skipper at 70kg is sailing on a boat 70kg he would need to put 5kg for the boat and 5kg for himself. also if a skipper at 90kg is sailing a boat at 70kg he would only have to put on 5kg to bring boat up too min wieght (75kg) that is my two cents worth. the boat and crew wieght's i plucked out of the air just to show how the system could work. they could be any wieght that a committee should agree on. please no one get on and say have a total min combined wieght of both boat and skipper as this gives a hugh advantage to a light wieght boat and a heavier skipper as he can move the wieght. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAX Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 minimum boat weight for all Maricat 4.3 classes is 95kg fully rigged (this includes the new boats). A boat weighing less than this needs to have correcting weights fixed to the boat and cannot be moved during the race. Crew weight is; Cat Rigged 63.5 Kg (singularly) Sloop Rigged 108 Kg (combined) SuperSloop 71 Kg (singularly) The minimum crew weight has been dropped for youth (under 18) and ladies. This is to encourage increased participation in sailing maricats from these groups. For a period of 12 months the cat rigged class only has introduced a minimum skipper weight of 85kg for the new foam sandwich boats. While I don't agree with the introduction of this rule it was voted in by a majority at the recent AGM so it stands until next year when a new vote would be taken on this. If the vote is not reversed next year I would most likely start sailing something that has normal class rules and not be too worried about it. Might be interesting to note that the class measurer also voted against the introduction of the new rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humungus2 Posted April 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 Ok, whos sailing cat class? whos is going to sail in the next state titles? Who weighs in more than 85kg. Well if you answered I am or I do for the theses three questions then I want the hear from you. Every one else is just blowing wind. Firstly the weight only applies to Cat rigged boats. Secondly the rule only applise to NSW/ACT events and Thrirdly if you weigh more than 85kg it is a benifit to you. If you are under 85kg you just have to carry some weight on the boat to make up for it.. Come back to earth you guys. REALY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 oh gee.. well i for one am totally happy with the result of the AGM, and am very excited for you all to see how this new system works and how it works well and provides a fair playing ground for all sailors alike.. yes its true if you buy a new boat you expect to have an advantage and this weight of 85kgs still allows this advantage..this weight gives all competitors an even weight thus allowing for the talented sailors to use their skills to win nationals rather than just using their money! and for those who cant afford it..not stereotyping the young or those just interested in a bit of fun can still be competitive with everybody as the lucky few who have these new hulls dont have a 20 kg advantage (but yet still an advantage) and old boat users can close that gap even further by losing weight or sailing frequently to imoprove their abilities......because the problem is guys that if sailing is to remian the same for our class, with the same enjoyment and passion it has provoked since the early days we need to continue to have a fair playing ground and not one that can simply be won by whoever has the newest hulls..best gear..lightest sails..or most $$$..because from memory sailing is about the fun and about having to improve your skills to win races not your equiptment....... and unless someone with enough money will bring the entire class into the future for the next 20 years, by replacing every maricat still existing on everybeach of australia with the new boats than this is the only way to go about it! and for those of you who are most unfortunate to have such illnesses as milaria or 'nasty bugs'not only do i feel sorry for you about these illnesses i also feel badly that you cant grasp the simple concept of using weights if necassary, which would permit you to not only sail your boat but also race very competitively..!! (p.s the weights arent on your back darling..there on your boat..) By the way it is interesting to see those of you who have so much to say now, werent even at the state titles to race against these boats and back up your negative claims....interesting very interesting.... ...and it will also be interesting to see members who have bought new boats sell them and move to another class and not be to worried about it.. so if ur selling cheap mate let me know ..??? well it seems to me that if you havent even seen or raced against these new boats how can you have an informed opinion as to what is to be done...?? lots of love hugs and kisses, Pirates Daughter!!!!! xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 WOW JL..you really spoke your mind didnt you darling... i just have a small thing to add here... ROSS you build a great boat..but we in the 4.3 cat fleet where these rules only apply have tested it thouroughly in all conditions with a group of very experienced sailors, rather than being negative you should embrace this rule if you think about it you will realise the greater number of people who can afford new boats will benefit by these rules as the market for new boats will be obviously higher in the mid to late aged group and these people tend to be 80kgs + and therfore would benefit by purchasing your boats AND also benefit the CLASS by keeping those people competitive and keen sailors..EG Wayne Barry, who i respect highly, at approx 95kg is our current australian champion i fear after our extensive testing of the 4.3 catrigged class we would lose people of this 'group' if we allowed light weight skippers to sail on the new boats as they would have an unreachable advantage.. ...trust me..Pirate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 I have raced Maricats since 1978. My fully rigged Maricat and I both weigh around 101kgs. With a platform weight of about 85kgs, mine is quite light for a 1981 model. In terms of boat weight I seem to be about half way between most old classics and the new foamies. In terms of body weight I must be at the top end. It is unusual for a class to introduce a ink between body weight and boat weight. This link seems to be upsetting some interested parties. If there is real concern that the new lighter foamies are heaps faster, perhaps it might be more acceptable to adjust the minimum weight of the Maricat to a figure closer to the average weight of the classics. In my case I think I need to purchase a lifetime membership at Jenny Craig long before I order some new hulls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 pete, this MINIMUM weight is to give guys of 85 kgs or higher an advantage therefore it would be of benefit to you to purchase new hulls...NO jenny craig is necassary as you wouldnt need to lose weight or carry weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmessee Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 Pedro, we are allowed an opinion buddy, and that is what this forum is all about and rarely does anyone attack someone else on here. I think it is a silly rule, others think it is sensational. That is fine with me. I was just giving my opinion. I am no longer the owner of a Maricat. I am too heavy, and the rule would work in my favour, but it doesn't mean that I have to agree with it. I truly think that the manufacturer should be included in all rule changes no matter how small they may or may not be, and on this forum the manufacturer has made it clear that they are not in favour of the change either. I just think any rule changes to any class should also be done with the consideration of making the class more appealing to everyone and growing it. New boats should be encouraged by all and setting a weight limit on the skipper is not sensible. But that is your rule now for a while and good luck with it. But we are all allowed our opinion. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 its not a weight LIMIT..its a weight MINIMUM.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 I am not looking for an advantage, just putting forward an option that some of the interested parties may find more palatable than the link between boat weight and body weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmessee Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 It is a limit. You are limited to what weight you need to be or carry to sail a new boat. That is a limit, either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 give me any example of a skipper that is disadvataged by this rule sailing 4.3 cat rigged boats this rule is my doing; give me time and I will try to answer ;HAPPY PIRATE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humungus2 Posted April 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 Hey Pete, I am on your side. I am under the weight which means I will have to carry weights in NSW & ACT but untill we get a few of the new boats on the water it keeps things fair. It's not going to stop anyone compeating. It just brings skill into play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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